Munich HighEnd 2024

[andromedaaudio]

I think high end audio in general has more to do with advertizing budgets then SQ . Per se.

 

[Dierkx1]

Here is the deal, if a pair of Schoeps omnidirectional microphones cannot capture the sound accurately then the whole premise of sound recordings falls apart. Those microphones are good from 20Hz to 20KHz and much better than what is most often used in the studios for recordings. I have been in many recording studios and let me say that Schoeps microphones would be a featured item at most studios. Let’s get real, this hobby is based on recordings made with often inferior set up than what Vincent used to make his recordings. At some point simple logic has to prevail.

I don’t agree. Those who fail to plan , plan to fail. For many first timers, like I did, we came and we winged it. No plan! If you want to get a good result you need to plan for the room number one! Secondly not everyone in this industry has the same skill set. Just because you designed something does not make you a set up wizard! Just like every pianist isn’t tuning their instrument.
Set up is a particular skill set and IMO one that only a select few master .
To be successful at a show you need a plan, a team, great gear and someone that knows how to position the speakers and set the gear up for maximum performance.
When you go around the show it’s OBVIOUS that not every one can do it.

Cessaro was not good yesterday but today it was better. I asked Ralph about that and the answer was the speaker is new (no break-in) and it needs over 200 hours time.
I also think most rooms were better today (sunday).

It seems the AC quality and system warm-up is the key

I would suggest breaking in speakers ( and other products) prior to the show. Munich is about commerce (not only) and you'd expect manufacturers and distributors to put best foot forward. IMO

 

[Rhapsody]

Nah, they need to be upstairs. imho as well as Miguel/family/team. Although the LM-1s sounded good in the room that you heard them, both the Lorenzo team and our pair of LM 1's in Manhattan which are both in larger rooms understand that the LM 1 is a large scale speaker. It needs room to breathe to show what it can really do. Although as you heard it can play nicely in a small room as well.

It might be a mistake to move rooms. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! The only problem with staying there is that there might be a line out the door to get in next year as the room only holds about 10 people at a time. But their set-up worked well for them. What has me scratching my head is wondering what the relative contribution was from their electronics, which nobody seems to know anything about. We're all focused on the speakers, but it was the system that sounded very good, and that of course is more than the speakers alone. For example, this was the snake pit of Zensati cables behind their speakers (sorry for the poor focus). Did that too account for the sound we heard? My guess is that it probably contributed to some degree. So much to unpack when you start to dive into these things.

View attachment 130881

 

[Audiohertz2]

People looking at SOTA cone systems should really have a look at Brodmann loudspeakers

If i understand correctly brodmann was established somewhere in the 1700 / 1800 s .
Making piano's in Austria
It was then bought buy bosendorfer the well known piano manufacturer who extended the line with loudspeakers .
This part of the company was bought by the current owner who brought back the original name .
I spoke to him briefly , im no sales rep i just think the performance was better then Wilson Magico for example.


Active bass 230 K.
Good stuff imv

Only better than the Americans

 

[AudioLibertarian]

Sounded good today. Found another unknown 2-way that used an 8 inch Supravox and gold plated aluminum done from Audax that really sang. The Supravox was run full range rolling off at 8khz. Great sounding small floor stander.

Those "uknown" 2 way speakers were the WLM ?

 

[D.Duttilleux]

Sounded good today. Found another unknown 2-way that used an 8 inch Supravox and gold plated aluminum done from Audax that really sang. The Supravox was run full range rolling off at 8khz. Great sounding small floor stander.

Did the 2 way resemble this one?

 

[morricab]

Most amps today power meters are rigged for our current feel good Zeitgiest , just ask the designers. If they represented true power levels most would faint from the notion of peak power on the meters . Why Nelson even expressed one reason for removing when his amps left class A on his meters as most keen ear audiophiles could hear the class B clunk after seeing it happen ..!

As I said, if the darTZeel meters are reasonably accurate

Those "uknown" 2 way speakers were the WLM ?

No, trying to find the name. The small WLM were very good too!

 

[morricab]

Did the 2 way resemble this one?

View attachment 130955

No, it used an 8 inch RTF driver. Very good driver. The one in this picture is a smaller driver and uses a Supravox tweeter.

 

[morricab]

OM Speakers

www.om-speakers.lu

 

[Alrainbow]

I don’t own a dart
Mike does is there a setting for reaction of readout
this comes down to transient peaks
a while back a buddy was at dart makers house
Playing on klipsh excuse my spelling
display showed Hundreds of watts at times

 

[Audiohertz2]

As I said, if the darTZeel meters are reasonably accurate

No, trying to find the name. The small WLM were very good too!

Agree,

But as i said , Herve is very much into his meters being accurate , not everyone is ..!

 

[D.Duttilleux]

OM Speakers

www.om-speakers.lu

Thanks, didn't know this brand.

Not a fan of 'the beard' around the woofer, but it seems to be a well thought out system. Quite sensitive too.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Thanks, didn't know this brand.

Not a fan of 'the beard' around the woofer, but it seems to be a well thought out system. Quite sensitive too.

Appreciate you using sensitivity instead of efficiency ..!

Terminologies running wild these days

 

[AudioHR]

MBL.

The first time in 24 years that i heard a good MBL presentation .
Very nice filigrane sound with bass extension overal very coherent presentation

Agreed, best I have heard them!

 

[D.Duttilleux]

I think high end audio in general has more to do with advertizing budgets then SQ . Per se.

Or with ridiculous pricing, without marketing and apparently often without a particular philosophy.

I've listened to speakers costing 80k and up that were ridiculed by Wilson Sashas and I'm definitely not a Wilson fan.
Wilson isn't bad, but a little too MOR high end for my taste.

 

[morricab]

My top 5 “affordable “ systems

1) Diptyque/Kora. Just superb and end game probably for those not obsessed with not picking
2) Grandinote Mach2 estrema and Solo amp with Volta streamer DAC built in. Analog was off in this room but digital was superb. Punch, dynamics and life in this system…not quite as good as the Mach 8XLs of last year but still darn good.
3) OM Speakers/Spec . Speakers were wonderful at 8K and would work fantastic with SET or Class A PP triode.
4) WLM stand mounts/WLM amp. Despite being class D it was musical and big sounding
5) Line Magnetic/Supravox interesting speaker with Supravox bass, Radian Be mid in square horn and LM tweeter. LM WE212 based amp delivered glorious SET sound

Honorable mention: Brinkmann system with Rockport Avior II speakers. Definitely stretching the “affordable “ moniker here but the system sounded lovely…a real oasis from the bustle around. Tone was spot on and resolution allowed to hear deeply into recordings.

Honorable mention 2: RossoFiorentino/Ypsilon. The Phaeton once again rises up as one of my favorite non-SET amps. The RF speakers for the first time really sang in this system. Ypsilon phonostage and Bergman TT didn’t hurt…but pushed this to the very edge of “Affordable “.

 

[Alrainbow]

My top 5 “affordable “ systems

1) Diptyque/Kora. Just superb and end game probably for those not obsessed with not picking
2) Grandinote Mach2 estrema and Solo amp with Volta streamer DAC built in. Analog was off in this room but digital was superb. Punch, dynamics and life in this system…not quite as good as the Mach 8XLs of last year but still darn good.
3) OM Speakers/Spec . Speakers were wonderful at 8K and would work fantastic with SET or Class A PP triode.
4) WLM stand mounts/WLM amp. Despite being class D it was musical and big sounding
5) Line Magnetic/Supravox interesting speaker with Supravox bass, Radian Be mid in square horn and LM tweeter. LM WE212 based amp delivered glorious SET sound

Honorable mention: Brinkmann system with Rockport Avior II speakers. Definitely stretching the “affordable “ moniker here but the system sounded lovely…a real oasis from the bustle around. Tone was spot on and resolution allowed to hear deeply into recordings.

Honorable mention 2: RossoFiorentino/Ypsilon. The Phaeton once again rises up as one of my favorite non-SET amps. The RF speakers for the first time really sang in this system. Ypsilon phonostage and Bergman TT didn’t hurt…but pushed this to the very edge of “Affordable “.

Grandi note is as you say but it’s very tipped up
I loved them but once you leave and hear a normal tonal bal there not for me
They played very loud and yea had a presence
the dipq are very good but need a bottom end you can feel not just hear
asylvox has a bottom you can feel this fills in the mids better to me.
This is always about choice but if we take the time to hear them longer I think we as observers can get closer in agreement

 

[D.Duttilleux]

Appreciate you using sensitivity instead of efficiency ..!

Terminologies running wild these days

In this case yes, because driver efficiency (η₀) is consumed by the application (crossover, cabinet, etc.), so sensitivity is a better indicator.
Both the tweeter and woofer are very efficient compared to at least 90% of typical hi-fi/high-end drivers.

 

[morricab]

Interesting “nearly” nailed it systems:

Ypsilon + Kaiser Kawero! speakers. Huge dynamics great soundstage and transparency/resolution…but tonally slightly “hot”
Lansche + Thrax: lovely tone from upper bass onwards thx to Thrax and ion tweeter. Bass couldn’t keep up and so sounded a bit heavy and sluggish
Thrax active speakers: incredible speed, dynamics, presence and tone was pretty good too. But perhaps a bit too insistent for long listening sessions
Tidal Contriva G3 and Tidal electronics: refined, resolved and amazingly transparent and well balanced…but definitely on the icy side tonally…this made it a no for me.
Living Voice/SJS/Kuzma: Beautiful tone, good dynamics, coherence and superb soundstage…but not resolved/transparent enough and somewhat shut in highs. Pains me to write this given my love for LV in the past…

 

[morricab]

Grandi note is as you say but it’s very tipped up
I loved them but once you leave and hear a normal tonal bal there not for me
They played very loud and yea had a presence
the dipq are very good but need a bottom end you can feel not just hear
asylvox has a bottom you can feel this fills in the mids better to me.
This is always about choice but if we take the time to hear them longer I think we as observers can get closer in agreement

Alsyvox sounded, IMO, considerably less realistic than Diptyque. No planars will give you the slam of big cones or horns.