My default audiophile state: dissatisfaction

[thedudeabides]

I recently described audio to a friend of mine as a drug habit.

The good thing is you have something that materially exists. The bad is how you can become hooked on it for all the wrong reasons.

As Steve indicated, we all feel, in some way or another, that we can improve our systems.

The question is how you handle the craving.

I for one, am quite happy with what I have. Brings enormous enjoyment and pleasure, not to mention relaxation and a way to shed stress.

Music, and the system it's played on, should not be a stressful experience.

If it is, you may want to consider another hobby.

Good luck.

 

[Joe Whip]

Can I improve my system? Perhaps, but I am so damn happy with the sound of the room that I have no interest in doing so. I hear quite a few systems at shows and in homes. I have heard a handful that I thought sounded better than mine over the years. Much better? No, only marginally better, at least to these ears. Others may differ as they value different aspects of audio reproduction. I am long past evaluating the sound of the room. In comparison to live unamplified and amplified music, it sounds great. The only new purchases over the last few years has been a new DAC and a computer and SSD dedicated exclusively to music. Unless something breaks or DACS get much better (and that is an interesting subject on its own) I am done spending cash on 2 channel. I will work on the HT room in 2016 to upgrade to 4K and object based audio, once all the standards are set.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Since joining the site almost 5 years ago I have acquired a lot of knowledge from our members and they have given me the inspiration to seek out components within my budget to improve my playback system. Every change I've made has been extremely gratifying and I'm at a point whereby I could truly live with what I have currently for the rest of my days. However, and this is important for me to point out, I do not love my system any more than those I've owned in the past. When you're a true music lover you learn that the satisfaction of music doesn't come from the system. You listen with an ear tuned in to the artists' work before anything else. I fear that far too many audiophiles are not capable of this, hence the constant need for something better. Tell me, how much fun is it listening to music when all you hear is what you think is wrong with your system? I am very happy to have never turned into that type of audiophile.

 

[Diapason]

Aha, I'm dissatisfied with my system because I'm not a "true music lover". That's that mystery solved!

 

[Orb]

Aha, I'm dissatisfied with my system because I'm not a "true music lover". That's that mystery solved!

Could be worse.
You could be a fan of Bat out of Hell/Rocky Horror Picture Show/etc just like me
That makes me an enemy of music lovers I would say

Cheers
Orb

 

[Diapason]

Orb, regarding your suggestion that I try to figure out exactly what's wrong, the easiest way to explain is to say that my system encourages me to listen to less rather than more. By that I mean that it excels in its presentation of some music (which I enjoy) but does poorly with others, to the level where it can sound unpleasant. When the system dictates the music I feel that it's no longer doing its job, and that's the main reason for the current itch. Many of my albums now only get listened to in the car or elsewhere, and that's entirely the opposite of what I want. I don't expect the main system to make every recording sound amazing, far from it, but I need something that's a little more even-handed across a wider array of music.

 

[Orb]

Orb, regarding your suggestion that I try to figure out exactly what's wrong, the easiest way to explain is to say that my system encourages me to listen to less rather than more. By that I mean that it excels in our presentation of some music (which I enjoy) but does poorly with others, to the level where it can sound unpleasant. When the system dictates the music I feel that it's no longer doing its job, and that's the main reason for the current itch. Many of my albums now only get listened to in the car or elsewhere, and that's entirely the opposite of what I want. I don't expect the main system to make every recording sound amazing, far from it, but I need something that's a little more even-handed across a wider array of music.

The trick IMO is to not analyse the system per se (at least not on its own and reduced to listening and trying judge quality of bass-timbre-highs-etc against what you think or quantify is best) but look to your behaviour and albums selected/skipped; identify which albums and critically also sound traits (could be specific songs on an album) that trigger both satisfaction and the urge to skip/move on/frequency played or stopped/etc and when.
You need to be able to break down in greater detail for yourself both albums and triggers/frequency, by doing that you will be able to identify the trend and trait or at least help to anyway.
The unpleasant is where I am coming from with the "sort of dissonance" cognitive behaviour-listening satisfaction, but this can be caused by various factors and at its basic are the sort I mentioned in previous post.
The problem is this means it is not necessarily genre related but could be mastering/system exacerbating one or more factors/etc.
Just to say a good system even a reference one when selected for ones preference will be able to play all types of music both good and bad to a satisfying level; I know from experience as I love both excellent and appalling records
And yet some would prefer the system to emphasise warts and all; the difference between two reference systems can be marginal at these levels but seem much more when one talks about preference and long term perceived dissonance type effect; some or many might feel my system is a bit veiled (so exacerbating their own dissonance) compared to their high end setup and yet both of us can have a very good high end system.

I am using the word dissonance to convey this effect but it is not entirely accurate, but IMO fits in this context and long term listening perceptions and satisfaction/niggles.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Aha, I'm dissatisfied with my system because I'm not a "true music lover". That's that mystery solved!

Glad I was able to help and make you see the light!

 

[Diapason]

At least you didn't suggest a TT as the answer to all my problems, JV. Yet...

I'll mull that over, Orb, and be back to you when I've had my beauty sleep. Essential in my case.

 

[JackD201]

Have you played with your algorithm settings lately?

 

[Orb]

At least you didn't suggest a TT as the answer to all my problems, JV. Yet...

I'll mull that over, Orb, and be back to you when I've had my beauty sleep. Essential in my case.

If you managed to identify some of the traits to what you really enjoy-gives satisfaction and also cause the dissonance-niggle type effect please do post as it may help a lot with suggestions, and would be interesting to say the least.
Thanks
Orb

 

[Barry2013]

Could be worse.
You could be a fan of Bat out of Hell/Rocky Horror Picture Show/etc just like me
That makes me an enemy of music lovers I would say

Cheers
Orb

How refreshing to read of someone who just enjoys what they like !

 

[Peter Breuninger]

If everyone on WBF could hear this system... if if if. It is the best system I've ever heard. It makes HPs systems of yore sound artificial.

It is also quite expensive.

 

[LL21]

Orb, regarding your suggestion that I try to figure out exactly what's wrong, the easiest way to explain is to say that my system encourages me to listen to less rather than more. By that I mean that it excels in its presentation of some music (which I enjoy) but does poorly with others, to the level where it can sound unpleasant. When the system dictates the music I feel that it's no longer doing its job, and that's the main reason for the current itch. Many of my albums now only get listened to in the car or elsewhere, and that's entirely the opposite of what I want. I don't expect the main system to make every recording sound amazing, far from it, but I need something that's a little more even-handed across a wider array of music.

I saw your profile. Is this still your system?

Wadia 581SE - GRAAF Modena OTL monoblocks - Kharma CRM 3.2FE - GIK Acoustic panels - Kubala-Sosna cables - Finite Elemente Levelplus rack

Question: have you ever heard a system where you were seduced by the music...particularly where the system seemed to play many kinds of music well? We all have personal tastes so just curious if you've ever found something that you really liked

 

[LL21]

If everyone on WBF could hear this system... if if if. It is the best system I've ever heard. It makes HPs systems of yore sound artificial.

It is also quite expensive.

View attachment 19312

Hi...quite a statement coming from someone who gets to hear a lot SOTA equipment. Just so i get it right...what exactly is this system? Perfect 8 Cubes driven by...Kondo's greatest? Most curious...

 

[Al M.]

As to the matter at hand, part of the problem is the room. In fact, I've always been really unlucky with rooms everywhere I've lived, and my current listening room is probably the worst of all. On this score, we're not just dealing with my imagination here, as friends have brought over speakers they know and love and discovered that they sound awful in this space. Still, it's what I have so after a while the bitching has to stop, the fantasies of moving house purely for audio reasons must be left to one side, and I need to make the best with what I have. I am intent on measuring the response of the room as suggested above, and I'm going to do that before I upgrade another component. However, I'm not sure that we can make a silk purse out of a 21' x 9' x 8' concrete-shelled sow's ear, so deep down I often wonder if I'm fighting a losing battle.

Yes, I think the room may be your biggest problem, also given the problems with tonal balance that you describe. A lot of that should be fixable with room treatment. Fortunately, those are also the upgrades that may give you the most bang for the buck, and it's certainly way cheaper than buying a new speaker in your price range. I'd try absorbers, for example something like this:

http://www.acoustimac.com/acm-422-acoustic-panels-48x24x2/?gclid=COjypcy8nMQCFUJk7AodjBsAFQ

A good thick carpet from natural fiber (e.g., wool) should also give you some better and warmer tonal balance. Going up somewhat in the price range (but in comparison with other upgrades still ludicrously cheap), I suggest you contact Acoustic Sciences (from whom I have most of my room treatment) and tell them about your room and tonal balance. I have found that they are also friendly over the phone. You can get custom room treatment from them when you send in room plan and photos.

In my opinion you should not even think about other speakers before you have addressed your room acoustics.

Once your tonal balance is fixed (and that will not be the only improvement you'll hear, you will be amazed), you will of course still hear problems, but so do I, yet I still enjoy music immensely over my system, in fact today I enjoy music more than ever in my life. No system is perfect, and it takes the right psychological attitude to overcome unhealthy audiophilitis. Instead of worrrying about imperfections I am just amazed how incredibly close to the music my system transports me. You said you can enjoy music in the car, so clearly all is not lost by any means.

 

[thedudeabides]

If everyone on WBF could hear this system... if if if. It is the best system I've ever heard. It makes HPs systems of yore sound artificial.

Oh my.

 

[DSkip]

Orb, regarding your suggestion that I try to figure out exactly what's wrong, the easiest way to explain is to say that my system encourages me to listen to less rather than more.

Given that I was born during the Reagan Administration, I don't come from an age where plentiful, well recorded music is out there from my youth. When I first started in the hobby, I found that my tastes in music grew exponentially as the fidelity improved. On the flip side, I also found myself unable to listen to many of my favorite albums from my teens because they just sounded so awful on the rig I had built. I realized then that even though I want live music to be my reference, I also don't want to lose the memories from my youth. My balancing has been hard to do, and I know that I could have built a much better and more correct sound, but I love that I can throw damn near any album on the playlist and wear a grin instead of a wince. It took about 3 years of trial and error to get it to that point.

This is also the biggest reason why I think I want to keep my speaker upgrade chain within Usher. I find them to do very well with those aspects that help make both a reality.

 

[Hew]

Fascinating thread. I don't disagree with the general consensus that the room may be a factor. However, I saw that your system doesn't use a preamp. Because of the transparency and detail you gain it seems counter intuitive to muck things up with a preamp but what you lose without one may just be what you have been missing. Experience has convinced me that for long term satisfaction the lack of good preamp can make or break a system. I don't really want to debate the question since I know it's controversial but If you haven't done so already it may be one aspect that you may want to investigate.

 

[DaveyF]

It is IMO always good to remember that this hobby is always about dissatisfaction. Because, as soon as you think you have it right, you surprise yourself with a trip to hear "live" music and realize how far you still have to go. This aspect is what attracts me to the hobby...because it allows me to gauge the "reality" factor ( for want of a better descriptor).
Personally, I enjoy the quest....are we getting close to the reproduction of the sound of the reed in the clarinet, the "blat" that I hear live from the trumpet or sax player. Can I decipher which guitar make that I am listening to on the LP? Do I hear the small but important movements of the guitar player's fingers on the fret board....the piano player's use of the foot pedal etc., etc.,
To many, just enjoying the music is enough....and why not. Playing it back over the ipod or the radio in the car is enough....( and I say ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with that). I enjoy the music as much as the next guy over the ipod and radio. BUT, in some ways that's NOT what this hobby is about. NO, it's about trying to fool myself ( and perhaps others) into thinking I have the real musicians in my stereo room ( as implausible as that might seem and is). How close can we get to the"real" in our home environment???
It's a never ending quest...I wouldn't call the quest a recipe for dissatisfaction, instead a quest for as HP so eloquently put it...a quest for the "Absolute Sound".
To some that will be dissatisfying, to others, a pleasurable enterprise that will hopefully add to our enjoyment of recorded music. I know it does for me.