My end-game speakers
- Thread starter LeoDuran
- Start date
According to this thread: https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?p=997830
The phono-stage in the CL-1000 was ported from the E-250.
Yeap, it's a game room! (LOL)... But I'm not following what you mean by "wall mounts both end of the pool table"... Could you please illustrate a bit more?
(BTW, the pool table can only be placed where it is now because the 12-ft end is not wide enough)
Thanks!
By end-game I assume you're talking about last attempt at the best level of musicality you can muster.
Addressing your main concern i.e. the room, yeah it can be done. But you'll need to give careful consideration to the clostet wall and the 12ft width because speakers do need room to breath. The speakers' woofer fronts will probably have to be out from the front wall a minimum of 5 - 5.5 ft. That only leaves about 3ft of right wall in front of the speaker for symmetrical sound reinforcement. If this is truly to be your "end-game" playback system and since you have some sort of budget, you could demo the double-door closet to add another 2.5 ft to room width so now that portion of the room 14.5ft wide. 12ft wide will work with some effort but 14.5ft wide will work far easier plus give your speakers some much needed breathing room. Not to mention that the sliding double doors don't make for a very stable sound reinforcement and at the very least aesthetically your playback system will suffer. We're talkin' end-game system, right? You can always build a small coat closet by the stairs or even shorten the vanity area to increase new coat closet space. These should be relatively small remodeling projects.
Don't know much about the new Luxman gear but I would definitely consider well-designed amps with at least triple the wpc of the M900u. And with this dramatically increased wpc, you then have the option to eliminate your active linestage opting instead for a passive volume attenuator. Not only will your dynamics be potentially more natural but the overall playback presentation is potentially more musical for several reasons. By excercising this option you're also on your way toward a more minimalist system which in itself most always lends itself to improved performance. Again, we're talkin' end-game playback system, right?
The M3s would sing in that room especially if you could put them firing out of the corner where the pool table is. The M3s are very, very good IMO.
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Yes, the goal is a system I can enjoy and live with, and be done with "fiddling".
Sure, removing the closet and getting more power are options worth considering, but I'd prefer to avoid them if that's possible... But, I do appreciate what you're saying. Thanks!
BTW, on the M3 vs M2:
I know it may counter-intuitive considering the size difference, but at least on paper, the M3 (@91db) seems easier to drive than the M2 (@88dB)... But perhaps I'm missing something (e.g., perhaps something about how each speaker may deal with the available space?). Thanks for the clarifications on that.
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In my opinion, narrow-pattern speakers (presumably horns or horn hybrids) make a lot of sense for your room.
The reason is, with speakers that have normal radiation pattern widths, a lot of significant early sidewall reflections are inevitable with the set-up shown. Quoting acoustician David Griesinger:
"The earlier a reflection arrives the more it contributes to masking the direct sound." And,
"When presence is lacking the earliest reflections are the most responsible."
And this is somewhat counter-intuitive, but many good horns will sound good throughout that room. They will produce a spectrally-correct reverberant field, so assuming the room isn't overdamped, timbre will hold up well even near the stairway where you're getting relatively little direct sound. To be fair Magicos are also very good at this; my point being that you're not necessarily giving up "good sound throughout the room" with more directional speakers.
Horn speakers tend to work better than most when close to the walls and/or in corners, so even though the enclosures would be larger than what you've drawn, you'll probably end up with a net gain in usable floor space. Also it's okay to put stuff on top of big rectangular horn boxes, whereas it's not okay to put stuff on top of Magicos.
And finally, good horns have an inherent kick-butted-ness that says, "Welcome to my pool hall".
It is also a long since known audio fact that people play better pool with horns. Less side cush interaction, greater micro dynamic cue weighting and a pool ball constant directivity straight into the pocket without any difficult back reflections. Just pure pool hall logic.
The "long since known" was a nice touch. I tried that once but no one cottoned on
I realized that integrating what could be considered an "end game" system into a Game Room would be a tough challenge, if not impossible... I cut-pasted the Pool table into the room to make that point clear.
Hence my reason for coming here to get advice and ideas, so thank you all for that.
I had not considered Horns... Any specific suggestions? (Avantgarde Duos, perhaps?)
Thanks!
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I find the Cessaro Horn Acoustics Wagner II a really lovely "compact" horn loudspeaker, and I think it would be a great fit in your room.
Full disclosure: please note that I'm a dealer for Cessaro.
I've heard both the S5 Mk IIs and the M3s. They are both excellent with a similar sonic signature that's detailed without the older Magico's more sterile (for lack of a better descriptor) sound. The M3s will take you deeper into the music but the S5 Mk II is no slouch. Either are excellent IMO and with sealed bass should work well.
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My personal preference is more towards constant-directivity horns for your situation, which imo puts more of a premium on the off-axis sound. Ime the Avantgardes are more of a "sweet spot optimized" speaker than a "throughout the room" speaker.
What jumped to mind is the Classic Audio T-3, BUT I'm not sure that it's a particularly solid-state-friendly design, and the field-coil drivers complicate the setup because they need their own separate power supplies. That being said, you might contact John Wolff and see what he has to say. He can probably still make them without field coil drivers while including his other evolutionary improvements.
The JBL M-2 studio monitor is another possibility, though it calls for an external active crossover and multiple amplifiers, so again it's complicated.
However PBN makes a rather awesome passive variation on the M2 theme (using TWO 15's instead of just one) which they call the M2!5.
The discontinued JBL S9500 also come to mind, and there may be others from that generation as well.
In a bit lower price range, the JBL 4367. All of the JBLs will work well with solid state.
If you want modern art instead of a rectangular box, the hOrns Universum is kinda stunning, not sure about its compatibility with solid state. This is where I'd insert the Avantgarde Duos as well, again not sure about solid state.
Finally, at the risk of being overly self-serving, I have done custom speakers tailored to specific room situations and could do something which would work very well in your room, either snug in the corners or out a bit (your choice), but I'd want to provide you with a representative audition first because I'm pretty much an unknown.
My top recommendation would be the Classic Audio T3 IF John Wolff says it would work well in your situation. If not, then either the M2!5 or something custom by yours truly, or the hOrns Universum for speakers guaranteed to give you an unfair advantage in pool tournaments by distracting your opponents.
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OK, since you're a dealer, may I ask: What are the minimum recommended distances:
1) side-wall to the speaker
2) back-wall to the speaker
3) in-between speakers
4) listening position (to speakers)
Thanks!
Glad to hear it can be done in the real world"!
I'm sure not all of us can have a dedicated "music" room, yet we'd like to enjoy the music!... as much as it may be possible!
