My monitor/subwoofer system

[Al M.]

They were my all time greats too until I heard them again about a year ago after a very long time. I still liked the sound but man the lyrics really suck.
david

LOVE those lyrics!!!

(War Pigs, that is.)

 

[Folsom]

Change in musical tastes has many causes, mine was 80's pop/rock nothing to do with any system outside of a few bands I just hated it specially what was going in Britain. With maturity also came the need for more and better I simply couldn't listen to Ozzzzzy's drivel, I can't listen to Black Sabbath's lyrics anymore thinking what's this crap that I loved so much.

Being able to play and enjoy acoustic and more complex music on one's system is a different thing Ked and it becomes easier and more entertaining to listen to in a more natural setup. Tang switched to classical music almost overnight when we removed the cat litter boxes, several audiophile paraphernalia and audiophile power cords. Yes AS2000 and Lamms further enhanced the experience but the transformation to "natural" happened with decluttering the system. It's very difficult to enjoy complex music in a colored system, I'm not talking about ultimate resolution but rather low coloration and natural tonality and balance so the musical intent can come through to the listener. I liked classical music for years before I enjoyed playing it at home, jazz and some vintage rock is what my prior systems could play well enough but not classical for several years.

david

I sincerely doubt it's possible to make a stereo sound correct for pop/rock. They never record and engineer it with the goal to make it replicate anything - where as with classical they often do want it to sound like what you'd hear in person with no amplification.

 

[Tango]

You do realize by your definition, Marc is mature

From the above, Tang's definition appears to be that if, after your search, have a base system you are happy with, that's a mature system. You don't feel it incomplete, nor do you feel you have many more avenues to explore. Sure, you can play around with a few things, or you can, referring to the tannoy specific question I show asked, think that more can be had with more spend, but you are happy to give it up for what you have. You should know what you are giving up though

So, in your case, if Magico and pass are your final choices after your search, and if your set up settles down, that's mature, even if you upgrade models later or stay within the same sound. Important that you should feel you have exhausted alternatives, and your taste is not changing drastically

Damn. You speak of me better than I can put it. Every sentence.

Mature is not about stop toying with different gears either. I still have an itch for trying different gears but mostly just to satisfy my curiosity and fact find in my own system what the rave is all about.

@PeterA. You gave me a lot of questions. I will respond each after finishing this Korean series I am very much into right now. Boy I cry like a girl watching it. The soundtrack is beautiful too.

 

[Tango]

They were my all time greats too until I heard them again about a year ago after a very long time. I still liked the sound but man the lyrics really suck.
david

You are so funny Khun David. It is four in the morning and I am laughing reading this comment.

 

[ddk]

You are so funny Khun David. It is four in the morning and I am laughing reading this comment.

Dear Tang,

Here's a sampling of what I mean
Black Sabbath, Black Sabbath- This one's about young Ozzi's first pedophile encounter !

What is this that stands before me?
Figure in black which points at me
Turn around quick, and start to run
Find out I'm the chosen one
Oh no

Big black shape with eyes of fire
Telling people their desire
Satan's sitting there, he's smiling
Watches those flames get higher and higher
Oh no, no, please God help me

Is it the end, my friend?
Satan's coming 'round the bend
People running 'cause they're scared
The people better go and beware
No, no, please God help me

This one sounds like the his pedo friend was a bit rough with young Ozzy's soft spot, poor guy didn't know what happened to him .

"Fairies Wear Boots / Jack The Stripper"

Goin' home, late last night
Suddenly I got a fright
Yeah I looked through a window and surprised what I saw
Fairy with Boots are dancing with a dwarf, alright now!

Fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
Yeah I saw it, I saw it, I tell you no lie
Yeah Fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
I saw it, I saw it with my own two eyes, well all right now!

Yeah, fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
Yeah I saw it, I saw it, I tell you no lies
Yeah Fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
I saw it, I saw it with my own two eyes, well all right now!

So I went to the doctor to see what he could give me
He said "Son, son, you've gone too far
'Cause smokin' and trippin' is all that you do"

Yeah

But the music is great!

david

 

[bonzo75]

One of the earliest uses of "heavy metal" was to describe the tritone in that black Sabbath song

 

[Al M.]

Dear Tang,

Here's a sampling of what I mean
Black Sabbath, Black Sabbath- This one's about young Ozzi's first pedophile encounter !

What is this that stands before me?
Figure in black which points at me
Turn around quick, and start to run
Find out I'm the chosen one
Oh no

Big black shape with eyes of fire
Telling people their desire
Satan's sitting there, he's smiling
Watches those flames get higher and higher
Oh no, no, please God help me

Is it the end, my friend?
Satan's coming 'round the bend
People running 'cause they're scared
The people better go and beware
No, no, please God help me

This one sounds like the his pedo friend was a bit rough with young Ozzy's soft spot, poor guy didn't know what happened to him .

"Fairies Wear Boots / Jack The Stripper"

Goin' home, late last night
Suddenly I got a fright
Yeah I looked through a window and surprised what I saw
Fairy with Boots are dancing with a dwarf, alright now!

Fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
Yeah I saw it, I saw it, I tell you no lie
Yeah Fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
I saw it, I saw it with my own two eyes, well all right now!

Yeah, fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
Yeah I saw it, I saw it, I tell you no lies
Yeah Fairies wear boots and you gotta believe me
I saw it, I saw it with my own two eyes, well all right now!

So I went to the doctor to see what he could give me
He said "Son, son, you've gone too far
'Cause smokin' and trippin' is all that you do"

Yeah

But the music is great!

david

LOL.

I never thought we would end up with weird Ozzy lyrics on my system thread.

Love it.

 

[Al M.]

Alright, I just bought the Paranoid album, comes next week. I am trying two masterings, just in case.

I only know War Pigs from the car radio, so I'm curious how it sounds on my system .

 

[ddk]

Alright, I just bought the Paranoid album, comes next week. I am trying two masterings, just in case.

I only know War Pigs from the car radio, so I'm curious how it sounds on my system .

If nothing else it's a trip down memory lane...!

david

 

[microstrip]

I don’t know why a stereo couldn’t devolve if someone wants to go for a different sound. But it might mean their stereo wasn’t mature for them to start - even if it would be for someone as the goal was hit - if they’re making radical changes.

Stereo will never be a mature system - at best owners can rationalize their preferences and freeze the search for alternative ways of listening to reproduced music.

 

[Folsom]

Stereo will never be a mature system - at best owners can rationalize their preferences and freeze the search for alternative ways of listening to reproduced music.

I don’t agree. I even think that another way to think about it is to seek more important things than a lot of attributes newer philes discuss.

 

[Tango]

Tang, how would you define a “mature” system? Is it as simple as one that is no longer evolving? The first time I ever read this term was Mike Lavigne describing his own system. Since then he has added multiple turntables cartridges tone arms and SUT’s. Perhaps phono cables also. Do you consider his amp and speakers and room to be mature but the source components not mature?

Mike hired a professional outfit to design and build his listening room and then spent years modifying the room to better suit his personal tastes. That process now seems to be complete, so I would agree that his room now seems “mature” if that is defined as no longer evolving or changing.

What about a guy who buys a turntable with multiple arm posts so that he can experiment with different tone arms and different cartridges? Would you describe the system as mature but the front and source component as evolving?

Can a digital source based system ever be considered mature with the technology changing so rapidly?

What is your interest in identifying the systems that you think are mature? Do you hope to learn something through the process of identifying such systems? Will you consider Bonzo’s system mature the moment it is purchased and set up is completed?

I suspect my own system will never be mature and always evolving.

All these are my opinions.

- Mature system and room do not evolve further to the extent one WOW at every new change he makes. Mature system and room can evolve to sound better but not to the transformation level per given resource. Sure, changes can be made and I stand by what Kedar said

"Sure, you can play around with a few things, or you can, referring to the tannoy specific question I show asked, think that more can be had with more spend, but you are happy to give it up for what you have. You should know what you are giving up though"

- I don't know how Mike use the term mature. But I view Mike having a very strong rock solid approach to his ultimate truth in sound. System maturity comes from the owner not the other way round. He is the polar opposite of ddk. But both are so damn mature in the way they want to hear a reproduced sound and their system construction support that. Mike plays around with new things but his priorities never sway. If you follow Mike's journey you can actually sort out his criteria choosing gears. Example is his Dart vs Lamm vs what's the name of the other amp thread. Quite a few times he answered a question someone asking how many percent of improvement this or that change to his system sound and he said something like only a few percents. So this means the whole 95% ++ stay on his course. If he didn't add CS Port, he would still be so happy living with the NVS. What he doesnt play around is his room, speakers, amps, pre. The characters and how these gears and room setup work together make up 90%+ of his ultimate truth in sound I believe. That is mature to me.

- The guy with multiple tts, arms, carts will always be able to pick one set to live with if his luxury can no longer be afforded. Having different fronts has nothing to do with system room maturity. What is not mature is when one WOW or gobsmack as if his system is transformed every time he makes a change and a change happens every quarter of the year. I don't see you WOW every time you changed thing Peter. You only told us your positive experience and not raving about your own system with WOW.

- "So, in your case, if Magico and pass are your final choices after your search, and if your set up settles down, that's mature, even if you upgrade models later or stay within the same sound. Important that you should feel you have exhausted alternatives, and your taste is not changing drastically"

- Digital rapid progress is irrelevant. Using Mike as an example, new digital is not going to change his "must" on doing warp 9 while sound remain rock steady, instruments remain articulate, staging and layer as if you can walk through gap, super low noise floor, dynamic and jump factor at full 10, sound does not get fuzzy, and nobody takes away his isolation platforms.

- To use info from people in forum effectively you need to make sure knowing who does and who does not get blown away easily every time hearing something new. Frequent overly enthusiastic comment make me think if a person has unstable or not high enough reference. I dont care if his system is a two million dollar system. If he is not stable or mature in his hearing it is risky to take his comments as data point. This is why I have interest in identifying mature or not.

- Bonzo went through unbelievable amount of investigations in this hobby in 4-5 years. So His system will be a mature system. He understands 100% his version of reproduced natural sound. Using Lampi as an example, he sticks his neck to the older one with his certain spec not latest more expensive one. The guy loves vinyls and understand what kind of sound he could achieve having a vinyl front. But guess what if he ever had a system, I bet his system would probably be Lampi base no vinyl because he knows exactly what he want, what he is getting, what he could be giving up, and what kind of SQ/$ he maximizes. He also does not wow very often. That is mature to me.

- I am getting more matured. Not close to the level of ddk, MikeL, Gian, Bonzo, Micro, etc. I have been evolving just like you. You will see less and less gears in my system, more and more in music soft ware

 

[bonzo75]

Post Deleted

Ked you have been warned about these petty and useless attacks on micro. It invites a 3 day vacation as you continue to attack micro in spite of warnings.

This time we aren't fooling around

 

[PeterA]

LOL.

I never thought we would end up with weird Ozzy lyrics on my system thread.

Love it.

Yes, I'm loving it too. I particularly like "Fairies Wear Boots" and the whole first side of the first album. The riffs are seminal, in my opinion. I am more interested in the music than in the lyrics, so I agree a bit with ddk on that. I lost interest in the later stuff, but those first couple albums, just like the first four from LZ, and the Machine Head and Fireball from DP. These are the very few classic rock LPs I return to in my steady diet of classical and jazz.

Al, even I may be asking you to adjust those subs if you play Ozzy for me on you mini monitors, LOL.

 

[Al M.]

Al, even I may be asking you to adjust those subs if you play Ozzy for me on you mini monitors, LOL.

LOL, didn't expect that!

 

[PeterA]

Al, We can compare the vinyl and digital distortions of Ozzy's voice and Geezer's bass on our respective systems to determine which is more harmful to the head banging impulse, though we may not be able to discern the differences over the massive distortion already on those albums. I'll bring the scotch. You can bring the pigeon down from your attic.

 

[Al M.]

Al, We can compare the vinyl and digital distortions of Ozzy's voice and Geezer's bass on our respective systems to determine which is more harmful to the head banging impulse, though we may not be able to discern the differences over the massive distortion already on those albums. I'll bring the scotch. You can bring the pigeon down from your attic.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Very few rock albums are perfect. But Sabbath Bloody Sabbath comes closer than most.
Looking For Today has a pretty prescient lyric for guys who apparently can't write good songs.

 

[asiufy]

Those are not supposed to be literary jewels, guys I mean, mainstream rock lyrics are inane by definition, and while they did help me a lot when I was learning english as a kid, I'm glad I did read a book or two as well
Most of these guys were just kids or in their early 20s at best when they wrote this stuff, and most didn't have the greatest of educations too. You want more "cultured" stuff you have to dig into prog, but then there's no guarantee you won't run into gibberish as well, like Jon Anderson's lyrics
And BTW, a system that can't play Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin is not a system I want to own!

 

[Chops]

Al, just curious if you ever tried your subwoofers pulled out into the room, out by the mains?

I'm doing so with mine right now and am actually getting slightly better results, though I know all rooms and systems react totally different.