The Hubble's are better. I have some cords with Furutech rhodium NCF connectors and I have the Ching Chings also.
My monitor/subwoofer system
- Thread starter Al M.
- Start date
The Hubble's are better. I have some cords with Furutech rhodium NCF connectors and I have the Ching Chings also.
That you thought the Hubble are better I guessed already. Could you please be more specific? Thanks.
Lol, please don't plug any power cable with plating into a "hospital grade" receptacle. They generally put gauges in the male plug, going right through the plating into the base metal.
As far as Hubble being better, that has a lot to do with the corresponding plug used.
I've tried all sorts of receptacles and the thought that a brass receptacle is better than pure copper is ridiculous imo. People make all sorts of conclusions based on faulty logic and not enough information, I think this is 100% the case here and and I'd really hesitate to trust anything anyone believes when they make these kind of definitive statements. Especially when the touted "best" is objectively inferior.
As far as Hubble being better, that has a lot to do with the corresponding plug used.
I've tried all sorts of receptacles and the thought that a brass receptacle is better than pure copper is ridiculous imo. People make all sorts of conclusions based on faulty logic and not enough information, I think this is 100% the case here and and I'd really hesitate to trust anything anyone believes when they make these kind of definitive statements. Especially when the touted "best" is objectively inferior.
These days, I don't care what is "objectively" better. If I did, my system would not be sounding as good as it does. The outlets I'm using are not sold as "hospital grade". They're a high quality industrial isolated ground outlet. No gouging whatsoever on my plugs. I've also noticed that several "audiophile" outlets are simply OEMing these and charging at least double. In my wall, I have side by side installations of Furutech Gold, Rhodium, and Rhodium NCF. Now 1 Hubble. The latter sounds better than the rest.
Brian, I think that you, Al, and I all went about this the right way. We listened to alternatives and made our choices in our own systems. It is not surprising that Al reached a different conclusion than you and I did. That is the hobby and why it is so fascinating.
I agree with you that my outlets do not gouge the male pins. They too are Hubbell industrial isolated ground receptacles. My experiments were slightly different in that I compared the Furutech IEC plugs directly into my electronics from JPS Labs in wall wires to dedicated circuits in my panel. The Hubbells were an improvement and then standard wire sounded better than the JPS. I listened in stages. I discussed Al's electrical work with him and he improved his service, in part I think based on what I had learned.
The systems are different as well as tastes, so final choices are also different. Al and I may have different wire from the panel and outlets, and I think he has one circuit while I have four in a separate dedicated panel.
Not caring what's objectively better prevents understanding anything about why you hear what you do, so that's too bad. I know for sure you have no idea WHY that Hubble receptacle sounds best to you. I'm not going to engage in a technical discussion of why you may prefer the Hubble, but that may not apply to other systems and other people's preferences.
If you want to just do whatever on a purely subjective basis I have little interest in a dialogue, because conclusions drawn are often based on incomplete information and faulty logic. I know this because I've helped countless people improve their systems over the last decade, and I also design and build all of my own gear, which I've been improving for well over a decade. I rely on objective data to make sure I'm headed the right direction in my own designs, and confirm that it works by listening. I have little interest if the former is not involved.
So that's great that you are enjoying whatever you are hearing, I have absolutely no issue with that, but imo the "Natural Sound (tm)" crew here on WBF is bordering on cult-like behavior, the proof of that is right here in the last page of this thread as well as all throughout this forum. The complete rejection of objectivity combined with universal declarations of what's best while assembling a high 6 to 7 figure system is pretty amazing to me though. I'll admit the fact rational discourse of any objective topic being impossible disturbs me because I value science and logic, but otoh I really don't have any issue with people doing whatever pleases them. But I also think it's mostly bad advice and I think the advice on buying heavy-duty or hospital-grade brass receptacles over pure copper here on this thread is a lot like the Hari Krishna's knocking on my door. I know they mean well and they are nice folks entitled to believe whatever they like, and they seem happy... but they keep coming back over and over trying to convince me what they believe should be my truth too.
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Ok, great, but I've sent people countless demo cables over the last decade and the fact is heavy duty and hospital grade receptacles very often damage male contacts. If not immediately then over time they wear through the plating and into the base material. I have A LOT of demo power cables that prove this to be true. I think in some of these applications the grip of the outlet on the male plug is important, so critical devices are not accidentally unplugged. I am happy your plugs are not yet damaged, IME you are lucky.
Thank you Dave. Perhaps it also has something to do with the Ching Cheng male prongs that aren’t being damaged. They too are designed for heavy use being commercial or industrial products. Grip is important and my connections seem quite robust and stable. I’m not sure but whatever the reasons I guess Brian and I are lucky.
Love to see Hubbell’s data on that! @Al M. must have won the lottery to get your Furutechs given the mad dash of hospitals and audiophiles to replace their pinching Hubbellbs with Dave C’s special FuFutechs and softy noodles.
Funny how some are so threatened by natural sound,
David
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Although I fully agree with you on the importance of properly collected and used objective data, I do not know what kind of objective electrical data we can share about plugs and receptacles - I have measured contact resistances with a precision down to .1 miliohm and could not find anything I could correlate with sound performance.
Disclaimer - I am using mainly European Shucko plugs, so my measurements are not relevant to US or UK members.
It'd have been more accurate for me to say that I don't care what you deem to be objectively better in terms of materials for receptacles, in particular for audio application. I haven't seen you present any data let alone a method for correlating to sound. I do agree with @PeterA that different electrical components will produce different results on different systems. This is why I suggested an inexpensive (and educational) experiment to Al. In my experience, the sound of the Furutech NCF outlets approximate what I heard after refactoring my in-wall wiring by changing Romex to industrial wire, junction-less single run with isolated ground to isolated ground receptacles. Lots of objectivism there, I might add... And isolated ground is better by the way, objectively speaking! Similar to star grounding inside your components vs a bus ground. But I digress. After the changes, among other things, dynamics increased notably. Furutech outlets seem to "try" to do the dynamics thing to my ears but it sounds comparatively artificial. This is difficult to describe but it's what I heard. Then after the in-wall changes, the NCF outlets stood out as being excessively colored. I lived with crappy-Romex in-wall wiring going through a few junctions and pigtails with NCF receptacles for years and was none the wiser until I made the wiring changes and swapped out to the Hubbles and realized that I'd been held back. And that's how it usually happens in this hobby, for me.
@bazelio . Brian. You turn away from expensive power stuff because you heard industrial one sound better, truer to your ears. You also tried many microphone cables and now using some in selected place because they are cheap and sound better than expensive ones you have tried. Still I am not going to admit you in my "cult." You are not allowed to be in my "cult" just because you don't use expensive audiophile cable and cords. You have to use Ching Cheng and Belkin to pass first stage of admission. And if you cannot say "This is the best ...." you sure cannot get into my "cult."
And if you cannot say "This is the best ...." you sure cannot get into my "cult."Shunyata SR-Z1. That was very good, but then Ian was so kind to exchange it for a Furutech GTX-D NCF outlet that l had purchased from DaveC. That gave for example slightly better resolution on massed orchestral strings on top of what I already had and a noticeably less electronic sound signature on such textures. All in my particular system context that is -- I have heard the Shunyata outlet perform very well in other systems that are overall Shunyata based. Dynamics were unaffected by the change.
As I just said, in my particular system context dynamics were unaffected by the change to a Furutech wall outlet. As for the Furutech 6-way distributor, it gave the benefit of conferring a more realistic dynamic behavior, as I outlined in #711 (perhaps the Furutech wall outlet may have gone in the same direction, but if so, conferring a more subtle addition to the effect). It was the regular distributor power cables that sounded comparatively artificial and seemed to 'try' too hard to do the dynamics thing -- with an artificial edge, as I described.
Again, everyone's experiences will be different, based on differences in system contexts and personal perceptions. I am thoroughly happy with my current configuration, and you seem to be with yours. That's all that counts.
thank you for that additional information Al. Did you compare either the Shunyata or Furutech to a standard outlet? I know what you had before the electric work was old and probably not appropriate for the use.
I have the impression that these devices work synergistically so that people with Shunyata go all in and it seems like you have primarily chosen Furutech throughout for connectors and plugs. That makes sense.
Yes, I did not think that the old outlet was worth exploring sonically.
I agree on your impression of synergy.
@bazelio . Brian. You turn away from expensive power stuff because you heard industrial one sound better, truer to your ears. You also tried many microphone cables and now using some in selected place because they are cheap and sound better than expensive ones you have tried. Still I am not going to admit you in my "cult." You are not allowed to be in my "cult" just because you don't use expensive audiophile cable and cords. You have to use Ching Cheng and Belkin to pass first stage of admission.
LOL. Well... I like DIY and I am currently planning a DHT tube amp for fun; putting together a baseline circuit that I can then tune to my tastes subjectively. I'll make decisions based only on what my ears tell me, after knowing that the circuit works. And if that all goes well, then it'd probably lead to horns down the road because my interest right now is with a less than 1W amp power tube.. Maybe then you will admit me.
LOL. Well... I like DIY and I am currently planning a DHT tube amp for fun; putting together a baseline circuit that I can then tune to my tastes subjectively. I'll make decisions based only on what my ears tell me, after knowing that the circuit works. And if that all goes well, then it'd probably lead to horns down the road because my interest right now is with a less than 1W amp power tube.. Maybe then you will admit me.
Tang will never DIY nor have a speaker for flea watt sets. So in future you might have to decide if you want to admit him
i have been impressed by a small monitor system that i found better than bigger much more expensive ones in the same size room. So i am hoping Al would admit me in the future if i go into mini monitor.
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