Hi. I am a newbie on this forum because this thread caught my eye. I am considering changing my present Accuphase AC-5 cartridge to either a MSL Signature Gold or an Air Tight Pc-1 Supreme. I have a Grahams Supreme ll arm and wanted to know if anybody had heard this arm with any of these cartridges? Also I am thinking of going for a TechDas cart. Which does suite the Graham arm.
My Sonic Labs Gold Signature VS. Air Tight Supreme
- Thread starter PeterA
- Start date
Welcome to the forum, chelseadave. I have only heard the MSL and AirTight on the SME V-12 arm, so unfortunately, I can't offer an opinion about either one in the Graham arm. The three cartridges that you are considering are designed by the same man. Have you contacted Bob Graham? He may favor the TechDas as he is the distributor of their turntable, but he may offer some good advice.
What is in the rest of your system?
Cheers Peter. I have spoken to Bob about Cartridges and phono stages and the TechDas would be a good fit. But I can't find a review for the TD-01 so I don't know if it suits my tastes. My T/T is a Clara Clarity/Graham Supreme ll arm/Accuphase AC-1 cart. Shindo Labs Giscours Preamp with Phono stage. Cymer Southern Star 35 Mono Amps. AvantGarde Fino Speakers. That's the Analog end. The Mono's have 13E1 Tubes.
Here is a review of the Tech Das. http://www.absolutesounds.com/pdf/main/press/TDC01Ti_HFN_Sept2014.pdf
Well, they do compare it to the standard model and say the difference is slight.
Yes you are right and he does say it will compliment a Tube Phono which I am in the process of buying.
Just to update I bought the MSL Signature Gold and wanted to know what Resistive (ohms) and Capacitive (pf) loadings are best? cheers.
chelseadave, Congratulations on the MSL. It is a tremendous cartridge. My preferred settings on my SS Pass XP-25 phono are 250 ohms and 100 pf, however, with your Shindo tubed phono, they are likely to be different. Just experiment until you find something you like. I use 2.0g VTF. Enjoy your new cartridge.
It is sounding great and it is not burnt in yet. For the first time I can listen to my records without any fatigue. Mind you I like my Rogers phono stage a lot which helps and I am tube rolling at the moment.
The MSL Sig. Gold is now sounding fantastic just in time for our (Hi Fi Wigwam) Hi Fi show where my whole system will be on parade and I hope it measures up!
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I have lived with both of these cartridges for a while now and have revisited my earlier comparison. Here are my most recent thoughts on these two outstanding cartridges:
I would like to write a follow up to my previous impressions of these two cartridges. Since I last compared them, I have switched them in and out of my system at least three of four times. I had been impressed with the superior resolution of the MSL, so I spent some time fine tuning the set up adjustments of my arm in an effort to squeeze more performance out of the AirTight. You can read about the adjustments in my virtual system thread.
The first thing I did was move the counterweight on my SME V-12 arm as far forward as possible. This improved the inertia of the arm, though it did not provide quite enough VTF for the 12g Supreme, so I also had to use some dynamic VTF by adjusting the VTF dial on the arm. So now instead of having 100% of the VTF applied dynamically, it is now about 75% static and 25% dynamic VTF.
I also adjusted the cartridge loading from 100 ohms to 1K ohms, listening to all of the increments between. This improved the performance of the AirTight further.
Finally, I changed the way I checked azimuth by using a small spirit level and then reversing it to check again. This method eliminates any error in the spirit level. This is also the way Alister Robinson-Aikman, founder of SME, checked his azimuth.
With these adjustments to arm settings, the performance of the AirTight improved, particularly in the area of resolution. From this, accuracy of timbre, dynamics, and presence all improved, and I was really enjoying the AirTight because it retained everything I loved about it, but it now had slightly greater resolution and thus gained one of the strengths of the MSL.
I wanted to now switch back to the MSL to see how the two compare and if it too could be improved with static VTF and less loading.
Here is a summary of the differences:
Air Tight Supreme:
1. Extremely well balanced, natural, organic sounding
2. Very coherent and seamless sound
3. Slightly more treble energy, perhaps very slight distortion in highs
4. Very beautiful sounding with a warm, rich midrange
5. After various adjustments, better resolution and bass
6. Slightly slower, less extended bass
7. Strong note sustain and decay
8. Slightly more forward and present presentation
My Sonic Labs, Signature Gold
1. Excellent resolution
2. Excellent bass extension, articulation, and impact
3. Sounds more full range
4. Emphasis on leading edge
5. Neutral tonal balance
6. Bigger, more dynamic, room filling sound. Less polite. Very bold sounding.
7. Slight “push” to the sound. Less relaxed than the AirTight
8. Slightly wider soundstage
Both cartridges are superb and allow one to forget about the system. They are both very well balanced designs and don't enter the overly warm/rich side of the spectrum or the super detailed/fast side of the spectrum. Both cartridges all about the music, though the MSL enables one to hear slightly more of what is embedded in the grooves while the AirTight is more relaxed with a slightly better developed portrayal of harmonics. The MSL has more resolution, is more extended, and has a bigger sound.
As my mentor in Vienna tells me, they are just slightly different flavors and will give you different views into the music. I like them both very much, but in my system, I think the MSL will get a bit more playing time.
I would like to write a follow up to my previous impressions of these two cartridges. Since I last compared them, I have switched them in and out of my system at least three of four times. I had been impressed with the superior resolution of the MSL, so I spent some time fine tuning the set up adjustments of my arm in an effort to squeeze more performance out of the AirTight. You can read about the adjustments in my virtual system thread.
The first thing I did was move the counterweight on my SME V-12 arm as far forward as possible. This improved the inertia of the arm, though it did not provide quite enough VTF for the 12g Supreme, so I also had to use some dynamic VTF by adjusting the VTF dial on the arm. So now instead of having 100% of the VTF applied dynamically, it is now about 75% static and 25% dynamic VTF.
I also adjusted the cartridge loading from 100 ohms to 1K ohms, listening to all of the increments between. This improved the performance of the AirTight further.
Finally, I changed the way I checked azimuth by using a small spirit level and then reversing it to check again. This method eliminates any error in the spirit level. This is also the way Alister Robinson-Aikman, founder of SME, checked his azimuth.
With these adjustments to arm settings, the performance of the AirTight improved, particularly in the area of resolution. From this, accuracy of timbre, dynamics, and presence all improved, and I was really enjoying the AirTight because it retained everything I loved about it, but it now had slightly greater resolution and thus gained one of the strengths of the MSL.
I wanted to now switch back to the MSL to see how the two compare and if it too could be improved with static VTF and less loading.
Here is a summary of the differences:
Air Tight Supreme:
1. Extremely well balanced, natural, organic sounding
2. Very coherent and seamless sound
3. Slightly more treble energy, perhaps very slight distortion in highs
4. Very beautiful sounding with a warm, rich midrange
5. After various adjustments, better resolution and bass
6. Slightly slower, less extended bass
7. Strong note sustain and decay
8. Slightly more forward and present presentation
My Sonic Labs, Signature Gold
1. Excellent resolution
2. Excellent bass extension, articulation, and impact
3. Sounds more full range
4. Emphasis on leading edge
5. Neutral tonal balance
6. Bigger, more dynamic, room filling sound. Less polite. Very bold sounding.
7. Slight “push” to the sound. Less relaxed than the AirTight
8. Slightly wider soundstage
Both cartridges are superb and allow one to forget about the system. They are both very well balanced designs and don't enter the overly warm/rich side of the spectrum or the super detailed/fast side of the spectrum. Both cartridges all about the music, though the MSL enables one to hear slightly more of what is embedded in the grooves while the AirTight is more relaxed with a slightly better developed portrayal of harmonics. The MSL has more resolution, is more extended, and has a bigger sound.
As my mentor in Vienna tells me, they are just slightly different flavors and will give you different views into the music. I like them both very much, but in my system, I think the MSL will get a bit more playing time.
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Intersting Peter, Im not familiar with either cartridge but I expect your observations to be accurate and this brings up a question for me. Airtight; natural, balanced, organic, seamless, beautiful, rich, presence. MSL; bass extension, bigger, dynamic, less relaxed, audible emphasis of frequencies, pushy. Looking at the descriptors on their own one would conclude that ATS is the more natural and musical sounding of the two with the MLS sounding even a little hifi. Yet you favor the MSL, what is it about the ATS that's holding it back?
david
Thanks Ian, Ron and Steve. I think the Supreme is roughly $11-12K and the Signature Gold is apparently now $14-15K. It was the same as the Supreme a while ago at around $9-10K if I remember. The Signature Gold does not get the reviews or forum user comments that the Supreme has had over the years. I think it is an overlooked cartridge. Interestingly, there is a new AirTight Magnum Opus coming out in the $15K range and I suspect it will improve slightly upon the Supreme's resolution, extension and scale, but that is really only speculation.
It is very hard to hear these cartridges in controlled conditions and compare them to one's known references. Albert Porter has owned the Atlas and now has the Coralstone and Supreme. I think he may order the new AirTight. He has done extensive direct comparisons between many top cartridges and arms on his Technics SP10 MK3 platform in his custom plinth. Fremer and Valin have heard the new AirTight.
My suspicion is that the MSL/AirTight family is similar to the Ortofon Anna and they all fall somewhere between the Koetsu stone bodies (full, rich, generous) and the Atlas/Goldfinger/Ortofon A90 (super fast/detailed). I have also recently heard MadFloyd's ZYX Premium Universe and it is superb sounding in his system. There are so many excellent cartridges available today, albeit at outrageous prices.
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