NAT Audio Magma New SE

[bonzo75]

Great post Mike, know well Nat magma SE, magnetostat SE, symmetrical and utopia, and heard the symmetrical and transmitter on analysis omega. Would be good to hear the magma on amphitryons


Which AER do you have, bd3 or bd4? Imo they need sub 5 watts so even Nat becomes too powerful, would suggest you look at other drivers for Nat or look at a very low watt 45 or 2a3 type valve for AER

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you for writing, Mike, and for boldly accepting all manner of challenges here!

I think your no fuss/no muss/no worry approach to encourage future customer purchases of NAT products is classy and makes sense.

Just out of curiosity would you please tell us about your "6 active servo controlled 12 inch subs in twin H frame towers"? Is this a one-off DIY? If not, who makes this product?

 

[Verastarr]

Hi Mike, I've been running Nat Audio SE2SE 211 triodes, 70W/ch, off their Utopia tubed pre, since 2014. Other than some quibbles that may be more due to the rest of my system, I cannot criticise the SQ. I find the Nat quality of real solidity and texture going from mids into bass and nicely open top end, totally beguiling. My Zus need 50W of power at least to unfold, and respond really well to triodes. Nats are an almost perfect match to them, especially in my larger than average space. I can only imagine how good Magmas are.

Hey there SOM, glad to hear it !! I feel the builds are very unique and interesting as far as circuits go. There is a new one that I'm really anticipating listening to and its the Magneto which as I understand it is a single stage, point to point wired power amp with a single transistor and a single Nixie tube to get its 100W of power. Its an extremely simple circuit yet at the same time a very complex concept. Ive got no idea what to expect. But by now, I think we can count on it sounding amazing. Thanks for your support of the brand I am here to help in any way I can. Id love to actually know who our core group of NATowners is, so if the Nat Owners would not mind either posting here or contacting me then I'lll have an idea of how many there are. I believe the former rep was not the best about service but I'm the opposite. So I want you guys to know you can count on me for support, so lean on me if you need anything that may have been ignored before.

 

[Verastarr]

Hi Mike,

In terms of your very last point about AER and dual woofers or horn. Please see this thread with my build or pm me.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...l-to-hear-his-horns-project.31032/post-661651

Dang Bill, That is your first DIY Project for speakers ? Phew !! Id say you knocked it out of the park my man! Wow.. My drivers must be something more special than I know. I've Only Had experience with Voxativ in the Pure Audio Project OB Trio 15 speaker. I loved what I heard, but sold them to a client who wanted something immediately, then changed my listening room and did not replace them. fast forward and I met a speaker maker from CA named Tony Minassian, we became phone HiFi buds and he had a few pair of these AER avail. I believe its the middle level piece but its from the original series so its not labelled BD-1 etc. I can see its not the Neo Magnet so I know its not top of the line. I had an opportunity to get the top but I was told sound was pretty much the same as the others with lower bass extension. I planned to add woofers so that was not a thing for me... Im dying to put these into something as I am devoid of a really good high efficiency speaker. I have not truly experienced a folded horn single driver no crossover type speaker so Im stuck on whether to make something like the Pure Audio Project that is an Open Baffle with the dual 15s in an MTM Config in regards to the FR driver. Ive got 2 pair of 300B monos an 805 DHT SET Integrated coming this weekend, the GM70 NAT SET integrated a First Watt SIT3, a Crayon stereo amp and a 50W Class A CODA. None of these are appropriate for my planar magnetics, and Im dying to listen on something other than the local Forte 2;s I bought on a whim one day just to hear my amps. I knew how to find a high efficiency speaker today for a few bux,. Craigslist and Klipsch. Normally I would poke fun at Pauls company being all marketed to the moon and petered out, but Ive got respect for the vintage designs as these things actually sound really good with my gear, so Im imagining how great a killer high efficiency speaker must sing. I love planars for that back wave and that's why I am considering OB. I know you guys are hip to the HE/Flea watt config so I am all ears for any suggestions or pointers to help make up my mind and get on with it .. I am not ready to take on a high level build like yourself Bill, but man are they gorgeous ! .

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mike, tbh Nat has turned out to be the perfect choice for me. My Zu spkrs thrive on 50W/ch and above, and I run them in an 800 sq ft/5500 cub ft room. I get absolutely full room saturation at moderate volume levels. Tonal density in lower mids just knocked my previous 27W/ch Audion Black Shadow 845 SETs and 300W/ch Hovland Radia SS into touch, texture is uber palpable, and the higher frequencies (upper mids and treble) despite not being as energetic as some amps, has actually grown on me. I find the hyper energised top end of many amps fatiguing over time, and not realistic at all.

 

[Verastarr]

Great post Mike, know Nat magma SE, magnetostat SE, symmetrical and utopia, and heard the symmetrical and transmitter on analysis omega. Would be good to hear the magma on amphitryons


Which AER do you have, bd3 or bd4? Imo they need sub 5 watts so even Nat becomes too powerful, would suggest you look at other drivers for Nat or look at a very low watt 45 or 2a3 type valve for AER

HMMM, is that so ? whatif I level it out with dual 15's on an open baffle. ? Ima little unconvinced with 2A3 45 101 etc as Ive got no experience other than seeing these rooms at the shows, and when I go in, its rarely music I can relate to for demo, and if something does not have bass relatively flat to the mid to high 30 region , Im gone. My vids have the Magma M being used on Amphitryon tweeter.

 

[Verastarr]

Mike, tbh Nat has turned out to be the perfect choice for me. My Zu spkrs thrive on 50W/ch and above, and I run them in an 800 sq ft/5500 cub ft room. I get absolutely full room saturation at moderate volume levels. Tonal density in lower mids just knocked my previous 27W/ch Audion Black Shadow 845 SETs and 300W/ch Hovland Radia SS into touch, texture is uber palpable, and the higher frequencies (upper mids and treble) despite not being as energetic as some amps, has actually grown on me. I find the hyper energised top end of many amps fatiguing over time, and not realistic at all.

Leading edge is a fine line, too much energy yes, ugly. Though I find it to be necessary at a comfortable level because it mimics real life. I liken it to a cymbal at an amplified live music show. That Ride or HiHat cymbal penetrates the air right through everything straight to the ear. In the forest stepping in a twig or stick, that's some immediate high freq stuff right there. It actually stimulates our Limbic brain, which is where fight or flight resides. So if a rig can reproduce a snapping twig just like the natural world, with same sonic immediacy, your physiology will become involved as we are hard wired from Cave times to get a jolt of adrenaline from a snapping twig behind us , especially at night. We will whip around and be prepared to run our ass off or attack. This is the level of involvement I love in reproduced music. I like to be startled by a dynamic sound. Not where it hurts, but where it startles me. same as a real band. if something comes unexpectedly.. so this is a very fine line I feel between whats truly authentically representing true real life/and overdone fatiguing.

 

[bonzo75]

HMMM, is that so ? whatif I level it out with dual 15's on an open baffle. ? Ima little unconvinced with 2A3 45 101 etc as Ive got no experience other than seeing these rooms at the shows, and when I go in, its rarely music I can relate to for demo, and if something does not have bass relatively flat to the mid to high 30 region , Im gone. My vids have the Magma M being used on Amphitryon tweeter.

If you are using modern drivers like Eminence, you will be better off biamping. And for OB, as someone else on the DIY forum recommended, think of how many woofers you need, then double that.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Dang Bill, That is your first DIY Project for speakers ? Phew !! Id say you knocked it out of the park my man! Wow.. My drivers must be something more special than I know. I've Only Had experience with Voxativ in the Pure Audio Project OB Trio 15 speaker. I loved what I heard, but sold them to a client who wanted something immediately, then changed my listening room and did not replace them. fast forward and I met a speaker maker from CA named Tony Minassian, we became phone HiFi buds and he had a few pair of these AER avail. I believe its the middle level piece but its from the original series so its not labelled BD-1 etc. I can see its not the Neo Magnet so I know its not top of the line. I had an opportunity to get the top but I was told sound was pretty much the same as the others with lower bass extension. I planned to add woofers so that was not a thing for me... Im dying to put these into something as I am devoid of a really good high efficiency speaker. I have not truly experienced a folded horn single driver no crossover type speaker so Im stuck on whether to make something like the Pure Audio Project that is an Open Baffle with the dual 15s in an MTM Config in regards to the FR driver. Ive got 2 pair of 300B monos an 805 DHT SET Integrated coming this weekend, the GM70 NAT SET integrated a First Watt SIT3, a Crayon stereo amp and a 50W Class A CODA. None of these are appropriate for my planar magnetics, and Im dying to listen on something other than the local Forte 2;s I bought on a whim one day just to hear my amps. I knew how to find a high efficiency speaker today for a few bux,. Craigslist and Klipsch. Normally I would poke fun at Pauls company being all marketed to the moon and petered out, but Ive got respect for the vintage designs as these things actually sound really good with my gear, so Im imagining how great a killer high efficiency speaker must sing. I love planars for that back wave and that's why I am considering OB. I know you guys are hip to the HE/Flea watt config so I am all ears for any suggestions or pointers to help make up my mind and get on with it .. I am not ready to take on a high level build like yourself Bill, but man are they gorgeous ! .

Hi Mike,

Thanks for kind words about my speakers.

I just read through your detailed response - I would suggest doing a pure audio project type build using the AER MTM style but with the 15” woofers driven actively. If you have the room at home, I would go for the much taller Quintet style with 4 front firing open baffle 15” woofers per side driven by the Magma.
In terms of AER needing flea watts - I don’t think we have any evidence for that other than for the Pnoe experience, which is very unique and specific because it is a single driver implementation with the very efficient BD4 and BD5. The lower models are *much* less efficient indeed and more near to normal HE drivers like Voxativ in terms of sensitivity data (vary but around 103dB-106dB). The designer of AER (Filip) actually uses mainly a very particular custom solid state amp with a lot of power. You couldn’t run the lower AER models with flea watts in an open baffle and expect proper dynamics or even high output - physics preclude it.

 

[Verastarr]

Thank you for writing, Mike, and for boldly accepting all manner of challenges here!

I think your no fuss/no muss/no worry approach to encourage future customer purchases of NAT products is classy and makes sense.

Just out of curiosity would you please tell us about your "6 active servo controlled 12 inch subs in twin H frame towers"? Is this a one-off DIY? If not, who makes this product?

Sure thing Ron, and thanks for the good words.

They are GR Research/ Danny Ritchie kits. he sells a 3 driver pack and the servo plate amp to power them for $1100 bucks. he has another guy that sells flat pack cabinets for like $900, but this is no small undertaking as its pieces of flat unfinished plywood. I have a solution on the 11stereo.com site but I wont describe here. to keep within the rules. Bottom line is they sound great and are very fast , enough that they can keep up with planar speakers. As far as i know they are the only servo subs currently available ,..

 

[Verastarr]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for kind words about my speakers.

I just read through your detailed response - I would suggest doing a pure audio project type build using the AER MTM style but with the 15” woofers driven actively. If you have the room at home, I would go for the much taller Quintet style with 4 front firing open baffle 15” woofers per side driven by the Magma.
In terms of AER needing flea watts - I don’t think we have any evidence for that other than for the Pnoe experience, which is very unique and specific because it is a single driver implementation with the very efficient BD4 and BD5. The lower models are *much* less efficient indeed and more near to normal HE drivers like Voxativ in terms of sensitivity data (vary but around 103dB-106dB). The designer of AER (Filip) actually uses mainly a very particular custom solid state amp with a lot of power. You couldn’t run the lower AER models with flea watts in an open baffle and expect proper dynamics or even high output - physics preclude it.

Thanks Bill,
I had not thought about Quintet and Magma and its a great idea. I have not seriously considered quintet due to the great distance between those drivers, It crosses somewhere around 400Hz giving plenty of info for echo location. What do you think ?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Thanks Bill,
I had not thought about Quintet and Magma and its a great idea. I have not seriously considered quintet due to the great distance between those drivers, It crosses somewhere around 400Hz giving plenty of info for echo location. What do you think ?

How big is the room? You can easily lower that crossover point if you want btw. I would lower it myself.