Impressive drums even over my computer speakers, however the voice suffers. I am wondering if you shifted the tone towards the bass play somehow?
Natural Sound
- Thread starter PeterA
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Pop recording is only for fun sir. My system just spitted out what on the record. Play this record in your system and you will hear.
Edit: I don’t know if you’re talking about my pop video or Tang’s. For my video:
Based on listening in the room, the tone is more balanced now. Previously there was more high frequency distortion which made cymbals and wind instruments and other high frequencies seem a bit thin, white and splashy. This tilted everything up. Vocals seem actually more filled out now and the upgrade to the power improved the sound with all frequencies sounding more natural to me. The most obvious differences are in the weight and body of the low to lower middle frequencies and improved tone of the highs. Overall, the sound is cleaner and more open across the board, and more balanced overall, not just tonally, but spatially too, and in terms of scale.
I think this is because of a reduction in noise from the grid getting to the system, but I can’t be sure.
@Tango , you and David have my dream TT and cartridges. You chose well. I have to ask, did you add vacuum hold down or did you simply forget to put on the record weight?
It sounds fine especially considering you are recording from the alcove away from the sweet spot. I see you have also been experimenting with another arm. Perhaps you need to drink more of David's tea.
We don't know the frequency response of the phone mic, let alone the playback systems being used. I always play your videos, and others, using a portable DAC/amp through headphones. But bass is never going to come across remotely close IMO. So that's why I was asking you, regardless of how it sounds to me, how it actually sounded in the room. It should slam pretty hard. As to hating this track, I was referring to it being over-engineered and artificial. There's no baseline in reality as to how it *should* sound. An ironic track in a natural sound thread.
We don't know the frequency response of the phone mic, let alone the playback systems being used. I always play your videos, and others, using a portable DAC/amp through headphones. But bass is never going to come across remotely close IMO. So that's why I was asking you, regardless of how it sounds to me, how it actually sounded in the room. It should slam pretty hard. As to hating this track, I was referring to it being over-engineered and artificial. There's no baseline in reality as to how it *should* sound. An ironic track in a natural sound thread.
Thanks Brian. I certainly understand the irony. There is nothing natural about this music but the impact from my recent changes to the power delivery has dramatically changed the way this recording sounds on my system. Yes there is a lot of base on the recording and presented by my system. I was listening to it for fun yesterday so I thought I would just make a recording to see if the change comes across on the recording, and I think it does.
When I first heard the song when I was driving my kids to school and they were playing it on the radio, I actually thought that it was a girls school choir performing a pop song. Only after I heard it on a decent stereo system did I understand it is one singer creating a completely artificial assembly of voices and sounds. I bought the LP for a change of pace and fun for my kids. I appreciate the fact that I can still enjoy something so artificial on a natural sounding system. That, not surprisingly, I do not find ironic.
I'll try to find the posts about your recent power delivery changes, Peter. By recent do you mean post swapping out all your gear and rack and cables?
Outside, in the cold distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
The wind began to howl
Post #2628 and around it. The electrician made incremental changes during a period of a few weeks and I listened to each one before he did the next one to best understand the impact on sonics. There were four stages.
I ended up with a new dedicated service panel which has only the four 30 amp audio circuits on the same phase. The audio circuits are separate from the rest of the house but everything is bonded and grounded to the water pipe with new wire and connectors.
The overall improvement is significant.
Hahaha..No vacuum stuff Peter. For convenient sake I often don't put record weight on. The other arm is a very old Ortofon RMG309. I experimented it with the Westrex cart to see how good comparing with the 3012R.
What's the topology, Peter? Does the electrical service enter the house and go directly to a panel that branches out only to 4 audio circuits and a subpanel that feeds the entire rest of the house on the opposite phase? You would still need a return from the subpanel to the main panel.
Another natural sound power distribution box has taken up duty in my office in my secondary audio system. Hubbel 8300 series receptacles, 10/4 stranded THHN, wired with isolated ground all the way back to the main panel, Ching Cheng cords. It's a simple system with only a TT, phono, and 25W amp needing power. I'll move the TT motor to a different branch, which is already wired to the room, later. For now I'm just ear testing the end result. It's sounding cleaner, less dynamically retrained, effortless, and contains more subtle inner detail. Previously, I had just plugged everything into a Furman PST-8 which itself was probably a severe problem. Power is such a big deal.
That looks good Brian. Is that just one dedicated circuit covering the whole system? And do you know if the four conductors are all twisted together inside the metal armor?
You describe basically the difference I heard. The 90° metal elbow coming out of the wall is pretty cool. My wires just come up through holes in the floor. I don’t have the MC cable yet but that’s going to be the next listening test. Good decision not to take my JPS in wall wire. I’m sure what you are using sounds better based on the experiments I did. Good idea to ditch the audiophile outlets also. Of course that stuff enhances leading edges and makes the sound more aggressive and impressive, but that edge and thinner tone causes fatigue pretty quickly.
Peter, the "whole system" is a phono and a 25W amp. And yes, one 20A circuit with isolated ground as I described. I'll stick the TT motor on another circuit outlet but it's currently plugged in to the natural sound box with the phono and amp. I don't think Furman - the old power strip - can be accurately described as "audiophile", though. But that strip had filters in it and I'm sure they were restricting the sound. Actually the opposite of enhancing leading edges. I'd say the sound is snappier sounding now, if anything. Less restricted sounding. Sharper leading edges, but not enhanced and not fatiguing. Sort of effortless and clear. Difficult to describe.
I'm being flippant, Peter. When you pointed me back into the natural sound thread, I saw you'd done something similar.
Every outlet has two hot and neutral terminals that are shorted. I have hot and neutral coming in directly to the middle outlet and fanning out from there to each of the flanked outlets. Directly outlet to outlet with THHN jumpers. I connected the isolated ground only to the middle outlet and then direct to panel. The middle outlet is used for the audio. If this office system grows, I could jump the isolated ground to either of the other outlets later. But for now, the flanked outlet ground terminals merge in a wago connector with the non-isolated ground and connect to the case. Wago connectors, I find, are better than wire nuts when you're connecting stranded and solid core together, different gauge wire, etc.
Every outlet has two hot and neutral terminals that are shorted. I have hot and neutral coming in directly to the middle outlet and fanning out from there to each of the flanked outlets. Directly outlet to outlet with THHN jumpers. I connected the isolated ground only to the middle outlet and then direct to panel. The middle outlet is used for the audio. If this office system grows, I could jump the isolated ground to either of the other outlets later. But for now, the flanked outlet ground terminals merge in a wago connector with the non-isolated ground and connect to the case. Wago connectors, I find, are better than wire nuts when you're connecting stranded and solid core together, different gauge wire, etc.
Power delivery is probably the most fascinating technical aspect of this hobby for me... What have I done here.
1. Replaced a Romex circuit that powered my office audio gear plus computer and networking equipment in my office with a dedicated 20A run of 10/3 stranded THHN to the audio system.
2. Inplemented an isolated ground for the DIY 6-receptacle steel outlet box using the THHN, with a 4th wire as a non-isolated ground.
3. Replaced a Furman PST-8 power strip that was plugged in to a cheapo Leviton receptacle with 3 Hubbell 8300 receptacles (1 on the isolated ground) directly wired to the panel.
I think that's it, in a nutshell. But, the change in sound has been anything but subtle. Observations:
1. This phono uses 4x 6DJ8-family valves in series. I'd been using 2 Mullard 6922 and 2 Philips 6922 for years. The Philips have high energy, speed, and snap. I'm sure I arrived at this combination as a result of having the Furman power strip in the chain, as I suspect its filters had been deadening the sound. After the power change, it didn't take me long to realize this tube compliment no longer worked. Now there was too much energy. I've now subbed in 2x Telefunken E88CC to combine with the Mullies. The sound is right where I want it now. Colorful, lively but not aggressive. It blooms, filling the room with out spotlighting. Inner detail is better than I've heard it in this system. Tonal balance is to my liking. I have a sound in my head that I am generally trying to achieve and this is getting closer than I've previously been.
2. Dynamic range is notably increased. I find that I'm adjusting volume more often in the middle of records. In fact, I don't think I ever did this much at all, previously. But now, crescendos in the music are catching me off guard at times. So I have to reach over to turn the volume down to spare my ears and household.
3. Thus far, I don't think I can hear any difference when my audio gear is plugged into the isolated ground receptacle vs either of the non-isolated ground receptacles.
I guess the approach I took was not to experiment with electrical changes by ear, but rather to make changes that made technical sense to me and then adjust the system accordingly. Having a spare tube box of substantial variety really came in handy. I find that I try to gravitate to Telefunken whenever possible. But, with the previous power delivery network, the Telefunkens lacked life. Not the case now.
A fun way to spend part of a holiday weekend.
1. Replaced a Romex circuit that powered my office audio gear plus computer and networking equipment in my office with a dedicated 20A run of 10/3 stranded THHN to the audio system.
2. Inplemented an isolated ground for the DIY 6-receptacle steel outlet box using the THHN, with a 4th wire as a non-isolated ground.
3. Replaced a Furman PST-8 power strip that was plugged in to a cheapo Leviton receptacle with 3 Hubbell 8300 receptacles (1 on the isolated ground) directly wired to the panel.
I think that's it, in a nutshell. But, the change in sound has been anything but subtle. Observations:
1. This phono uses 4x 6DJ8-family valves in series. I'd been using 2 Mullard 6922 and 2 Philips 6922 for years. The Philips have high energy, speed, and snap. I'm sure I arrived at this combination as a result of having the Furman power strip in the chain, as I suspect its filters had been deadening the sound. After the power change, it didn't take me long to realize this tube compliment no longer worked. Now there was too much energy. I've now subbed in 2x Telefunken E88CC to combine with the Mullies. The sound is right where I want it now. Colorful, lively but not aggressive. It blooms, filling the room with out spotlighting. Inner detail is better than I've heard it in this system. Tonal balance is to my liking. I have a sound in my head that I am generally trying to achieve and this is getting closer than I've previously been.
2. Dynamic range is notably increased. I find that I'm adjusting volume more often in the middle of records. In fact, I don't think I ever did this much at all, previously. But now, crescendos in the music are catching me off guard at times. So I have to reach over to turn the volume down to spare my ears and household.
3. Thus far, I don't think I can hear any difference when my audio gear is plugged into the isolated ground receptacle vs either of the non-isolated ground receptacles.
I guess the approach I took was not to experiment with electrical changes by ear, but rather to make changes that made technical sense to me and then adjust the system accordingly. Having a spare tube box of substantial variety really came in handy. I find that I try to gravitate to Telefunken whenever possible. But, with the previous power delivery network, the Telefunkens lacked life. Not the case now.
A fun way to spend part of a holiday weekend.
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Brian, congratulations on your improvements. That’s an interesting comment about dynamic range. It matches my experience with my recent improvements to power delivery. I remember my records falling within a narrower range of volume settings before. Now I’m doing more adjustments, and my preamp does not have a remote control. I think this is the result of removing noise entering the system, but I cannot be sure. Interestingly, I can also listen at louder volumes, or more realistic levels, without the system and room being overloaded or getting listening fatigue. I can also listen and enjoy lower levels later at night because of the increased dynamics and clarity.
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