Natural Sound

[Audiophile Bill]

Play big band and orchestra. Listen to the drum the bass also to hear if it is in tact. Then the Ortofon will expose itself more. I doubt it is a one for all cart but worthyof being on one of the four arms Peter has. Quite a few aspects of this video recording seem close to DST62 video sound. It dims the scene like you are in a cigar jazz lounge rather than a day light environment. Jazz vocal and chamber would sound very intimate, rich and soulful. The in-the-room factor is through the roof. I think the cart could get better quite a bit after time. My first week of vintage carts did not play at the same level as now.

Hi Tang. What do you mean by this sentence “listen to the drum the bass also to hear if it is in tact?” Please could you maybe use another phrase so I get it.

 

[morricab]

Here are four videos to compare the three turntables with the same Colibri cartridge, and then the last one with the Ortofon cartridge. For Bonzo, there are two comparisons possible: The SX8000II/AS1000/AS2000 and the Ortofon and vdH Colibri cartridges on the AS2000. In the last two videos, both cartridges were installed in the last day or two and each has less than ten hours of play time. They are on identical NOS SME 3012R tonearms with original SME phono cables.

For Brad, I did my best to level match the last two videos for the cartridge comparison using a hand held digital SPL. The difference is pretty dramatic on my Lamm volume control given the two different transformers and cartridge outputs, but the videos seem pretty close in level to me.

I will also post other videos later with different genres of music, but this will give some impression of how the table and cartridges sound in the system.

Micro Seiki, vdH Colibri Elite

AS1000, vdH Colibri Elite

AS2000, vdH Colibri Elite

AS2000, Ortofon SL-15

Here too is a photo of the back of my Lamm phono stage showing the Ortofon transformer. It is the light grey plastic tube shape with RCA going into the MM inputs. The SME phono cable for the Ortofon plugs into it at the bottom of the image. The SME phono cable for the Colibri plugs directly into the MC inputs. The blue output cables are from ddk and go to the Lamm preamp.

View attachment 96588

I think in many ways I prefer the VdH Elite setup. There is more realistic blat and bite with the horns and perceived dynamics. The ortofon is richer and smoother but i think might be missing some detail and dynamic range. I think the timbre is overall more accurate as well with the VdH as there is greater differentiation between horn and woodwind instruments. I am only referring to the last two videos with the AS2000 and different carts.

 

[Argonaut]

I think in many ways I prefer the VdH Elite setup. There is more realistic blat and bite with the horns and perceived dynamics. The ortofon is richer and smoother but i think might be missing some detail and dynamic range.

Disparate stylus profiles playing their part here as much as anything else methinks.

 

[Tango]

Hi Tang. What do you mean by this sentence “listen to the drum the bass also to hear if it is in tact?” Please could you maybe use another phrase so I get it.

First I dont mean I hear anything negative with this Ortofon. My reservation from the video was toward the end of the song when more instruments were playing at the same time thats when i believe the vdh would show advantage if the music were orchestra. We did not hear the bass or drum really play in that song. I find many carts has bass and play drum wrong. They do have bass and play drum but most are less accurate. The bass and drum are too difficlut for me to describe. I only started to understand the bass that David like to put emphasis on after I stripped off all audiophile interconnects and hear Neumann DST bass as benchmark. But any of you would be able topick which one sounds more realistic if compare one to another. The DST62 also has less convincing bass than the DST but the presence in-the-room factor is through the roof like this Ortofon. We only get to hear one song. Peter and David would know because they can listen many songs. Peter has quite a few different carts. He could compare them. I was only pointing the check list.

 

[Tango]

Peter did say in video post that he is going to record other music.

You only rephrase him to try to obligate him to do more videos for you. If I were him I wouldnt do it. But just tell you how it sounds in different music. Leave you itch.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

First I dont mean I hear anything negative with this Ortofon. My reservation from the video was toward the end of the song when more instruments were playing at the same time thats when i believe the vdh would show advantage if the music were orchestra. We did not hear the bass or drum really play in that song. I find many carts has bass and play drum wrong. They do have bass and play drum but most are less accurate. The bass and drum are too difficlut for me to describe. I only started to understand the bass that David like to put emphasis on after I stripped off all audiophile interconnects and hear Neumann DST bass as benchmark. But any of you would be able topick which one sounds more realistic if compare one to another. The DST62 also has less convincing bass than the DST but the presence in-the-room factor is through the roof like this Ortofon. We only get to hear one song. Peter and David would know because they can listen many songs. Peter has quite a few different carts. He could compare them. I was only pointing the check list.

Thank you! Hopefully Peter will put some more vids soon. I like big band too - hopefully one of those for a change. Not sure I can take another Scheherazade haha.

 

[PeterA]

Art Pepper plus Eleven next. Maybe a string quartet and Mahler for Tim. Thank you all for your comments. I like both cartridges. As I wrote in the very beginning, listening in room, the Colibris have more resolution, the Ortofon more beautiful tone.

The fact that a guy in his 80s can still produce cartridges by hand that compete with a company that has been in business for 100 years and produces many more with all sorts of technology and resources is to me pretty astonishing.

This new table in the context of this system allows me to hear stuff I only glimpsed at before. More videos to come.

 

[morricab]

Art Pepper plus Eleven next. Maybe a string quartet and Mahler for Tim. Thank you all for your comments. I like both cartridges. As I wrote in the very beginning, listening in room, the Colibris have more resolution, the Ortofon more beautiful tone.

The fact that a guy in his 80s can still produce cartridges by hand that compete with a company that has been in business for 100 years and produces many more with all sorts of technology and resources is to me pretty astonishing.

This new table in the context of this system allows me to hear stuff I only glimpsed at before. More videos to come.

Hi Peter, I thought the VdH better differentiated the tone and revealed more inner structure to the instruments' timbre. The tone of the Ortofon is arguably "juicier" but revealed less of the instruments' character.

 

[PeterA]

Hi Peter, I thought the VdH better differentiated the tone and revealed more inner structure to the instruments' timbre. The tone of the Ortofon is arguably "juicier" but revealed less of the instruments' character.

Brad, I suspect a casual listener would not even be able to hear the differences between these four videos. I actually think they are fairly subtle, and if asked blind, it might be tough for me. In room, the differences are more pronounced. I love both cartridges. I agree that the new Colibri does not sound as good as the older one with 125 hours on it by now. The new one has about 5 hours. All this stuff factors in. I will add some more videos as time allows just for sharing and general impressions. I chose St. James Infirmary for this first round because I have the other tables with this music. Making these videos takes time and effort, especially when level matching them. They provide a good opportunity to hear some of these rare items. I see no negatives, only positives. The hobby should be a friendly exchange of experiences and a forum a place to share and learn.

 

[morricab]

Brad, I suspect a casual listener would not even be able to hear the differences between these four videos. I actually think they are fairly subtle, and if asked blind, it might be tough for me. In room, the differences are more pronounced. I love both cartridges. I agree that the new Colibri does not sound as good as the older one with 125 hours on it by now. The new one has about 5 hours. All this stuff factors in. I will add some more videos as time allows just for sharing and general impressions. I chose St. James Infirmary for this first round because I have the other tables with this music. Making these videos takes time and effort, especially when level matching them. They provide a good opportunity to hear some of these rare items. I see no negatives, only positives. The hobby should be a friendly exchange of experiences and a forum a place to share and learn.

I suspect you are right. They were not gross differences by any means.

 

[bonzo75]

Brad, I suspect a casual listener would not even be able to hear the differences between these four videos. I actually think they are fairly subtle, and if asked blind, it might be tough for me. In room, the differences are more pronounced. I love both cartridges. I agree that the new Colibri does not sound as good as the older one with 125 hours on it by now. The new one has about 5 hours. All this stuff factors in. I will add some more videos as time allows just for sharing and general impressions. I chose St. James Infirmary for this first round because I have the other tables with this music. Making these videos takes time and effort, especially when level matching them. They provide a good opportunity to hear some of these rare items. I see no negatives, only positives. The hobby should be a friendly exchange of experiences and a forum a place to share and learn.

i understand why two vdh might be subtle but not why a vdh direct into phono vs vintage Ortofon through SUT into phono should be subtle.

 

[PeterA]

i understand why two vdh might be subtle but not why a vdh direct into phono vs vintage Ortofon through SUT into phono should be subtle.

The Colibrí is going into a transformer internal to the phonostage. The Ortofon is going into its own transformer external to the phonostage. The two transformers are different and in different locations but after that everything goes through the same circuit.

The videos do reduce the contrast between the cartridges that I hear live in the room. Differences between the turntables and cartridges are less subtle listening live. A greater variety of music on the videos should help. Some people here the differences more clearly than others. I have my impressions now, but once I live with these cartridges for a while I will better understand them. These are early days.

Kedar, I am simply providing videos for your virtual comparisons to keep you satisfied. At home, I really don’t do a lot of comparisons, I just listen. Comparisons and experiments are for when I am trying to learn and discover something to get me to the next level as I did with the various belts and threads and turntables.

My initial assessment is that I will likely use the Colibrí for classical music and the Ortofon for jazz and smaller scale vocal and perhaps quartets. But I actually like both of them for a large variety of music. In time I may gravitate more towards one than the other.

 

[aljordan]

Of the four videos, translated through my headphones and headphone amp, I prefer the AS2000, vdH Colibri Elite combination. The voice may be a little hyped compared to the Ortofon, but I find the musical presentation more dynamic, more open and enveloping, and with better extension at both ends.

What year was the recording produced?

 

[the sound of Tao]

It’s go good to be able to hear these and the steps between the three turntables Peter, you’ve ended up with the one that overall seems to have appreciably the most rightness to it. I was just pulled into the music more at each change.

I really like both carts on the AS2000, from early days the Ortofon seems to have more wholeness overall but the VDH brings other things that shape the spirit of the sound in other ways. It would be great to think that as the Ortofon settles in it might open up a shade more still.

Hope this isn’t heretical but would you consider trying one of Dave Slagles SUTs… either way so many thanks for the comparisons, so informative and these give great insights already and the sound shifts map with everyone’s observations, all very much appreciated… obviously looking forwards to hearing even more from your fab AS2000 beastie.

 

[PeterA]

Here is some Big Band: Art Pepper plus Eleven. Same two cartridges. C or D?

Video C:

Video D:

 

[Fishfood]

First of all, I never thought I'd be able to tell the difference on a youtube video. This is a very interesting comparison method!

I like the vdH, for sure. More fingers and lips on instruments and drum sticks on drums to my ears. But that's the sound I like. Everyone hears differently of course.

Thank you Peter!

 

[Klonk]

Thank you for this great thread. My ears prefer Big Band: D. Big Band: D sounds more natural in the brass section, more rounded and I probably cold listen to it for hours, while Big Band: C sounds slightly tipped up in the brass section, but all this are off course only minute differences based on the impressions of these videos.

By the way I can't watch video classical: B, it looks like it is blocked..

 

[Tango]

Thank you for this great thread. My ears prefer Big Band: D. Big Band: D sounds more natural in the brass section, more rounded and I probably cold listen to it for hours, while Big Band: C sounds slightly tipped up in the brass section, but all this are off course only minute differences based on the impressions of these videos.

By the way I can't watch video classical: B, it looks like it is blocked..

You like the Vdh more then. J also cannot watch video B.

 

[bonzo75]

Here is some Big Band: Art Pepper plus Eleven. Same two cartridges. C or D?

Video C:

Video D:

I prefer video C. My guess is that it is Ortofon.

I don’t think any of these videos is representative of a vdh sound but no idea how much carts have changed from Stradivarius to the GC elite.

I am just cognizant of the fact that those who haven’t heard the vdh before might dismiss it based on these videos which would be an incorrect decision

i cannot watch the second classical video as it seems blocked.

 

[tima]

Mehta / Planets



This makes no sense to me. Presumably same content as Video A with different cartridge. Google does like to block things ...