Natural Sound
- Thread starter PeterA
- Start date
Thank you Rex. I appreciate it. I reserved a couple of posts at the beginning thinking I might add some videos, more photos, or more introductory thoughts. The problem is that after a couple of days, one can't go back to edit, so they are frozen as is.
When starting the thread, and the one I wrote about the Utah visit, I reserved about ten posts on each so that people could not jump in to comment after they saw one or two. Reserving the block of early posts is a good way to assure they are all from one author. It takes about five minutes and then you can go back for a day or two to fill in the content and edit. It establishes a nice clean single voice for the beginning of these long threads with long opening narratives.
David is planning to visit me to fine tune the new turntable. I am thinking about whether or not to present that and if so how. I can't wait to learn more and spend some time with him. It should be a lot of fun.
Your lucky David is helping. I need help tuning my TT. From stand to cartridge. You know that how to listen thread. I am not very skilled at listening to a TT to understand setup. I have had pro here twice and get the basics. But I don't know how to listen to the affects when I alter the setup and understand if I am going in the correct direction. I am leaving loads of performance on the table. Good Pun!!!
Peter, since you asked the moderators sometime in the first few weeks of the thread to remove a lot of posts that you thought to be polluting it, we will never be able to trace when the controversy started, will we?
Really? Maybe that is related to the reason why you could not imagine the issues with your thread title.
That's beside my point. Every system, no matter the cost and effort, is compromised in that nothing sounds like the real thing. It already starts with the recording chain anyway.
Some music may sound closer to the real thing than other music on a given system, but there is no system that "can do it all" with perfect or even just sufficient believability.
I enjoy reading the write ups of different systems - esp this one. It’s fun and educational. Thanks Peter for going to the lengths you have to describe what you are hearing! You and some others have a gift to put into words what those like me possibly hear but can’t describe in the same simple eloquent way as you do. Thanks.
Al, first of all, I only asked the admin team to delete posts completely unrelated to the topic, specifically purple dinosaurs and food and car stuff. Second, it was only after about fifty (50) pages. I left in all negative comments which you can easily look up today. Nothing to do with support or criticism, just whether or not it was on topic. The reasoning is that this is my personal blog documenting my thoughts on audio with feedback, positive and negative from others. I thought the thread would go forty pages and die and I would be able to go back and find stuff. The off topic crap had no place in it. You are wrong, but good try. It would surely be convenient if it were true.
Nope, I still can not imagine an uproar. The only uproar here is from a few people easily offended by capitalization and titles. Name my thread "My corner horn and SET system" is not my style, nor do I find that kind of title adds anything to the story. This is a narration about my changing ideas about audio. People are free to ignore if they are offended. Why keep attacking after a year and a half?
That is precisely the point. Components, systems, room are more or less compromised, with more or fewer tradeoffs. The ones with fewer are better. The ones with the least are the best. Use whatever criteria you want. No system sounds exactly like the real thing. We all agree with that. That does not mean, and is not a support of, the argument that there are not better or best components, systems, or rooms. What does the recording have to do with it? No one evaluates a component or system with one recording. Not a single person here has claimed his system is best. No one has claimed one system can do it all. But, I and others, have certainly heard systems that are sufficiently believable. That is what is behind the whole drive to improve things and to find satisfaction with one's progress. Believability is the driving force behind what many of us hobbyists are doing. This whole line of reasoning makes no sense and is a distraction.
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When people disagree on something why do they have to debate til the day of armageddon? To win? To convert the other side? What is the point of that debate when the nonstop exchange is only strengthen the other side belief? To recruit readers to be on either side? To feel good when someone hit like on his comment reassuring his belief? Why opposites attract? Why not just move on after you make your point eventhough the other side may continue. Just saying this so we will not get so hung up and to even reminding my self too. Hit restart to our system every once in a while. We can still hold on to our belief and let others have theirs.
Good, I like that you responded and did not write petty bullsh*t.
I think each of us could pick a thread title or name for our system thread if we had one and be unconstrained in doing so. It is difficult to presume what others will think. Should Peter or anyone curry to the opinion of a limited few beforehand in order to name their system thread? How would he know that his title would be understood from an 'us vs them' perspective. Do you really believe Peter intended the message of his thread title to be 'my system is superior' ?
The tone of the written word cannot be derived from gestures or voice as the tone of the spoken word may. Imo it is largely a product of the reader. I am reluctant to put full responsibility for the tonal impressions of all who read a thread upon the writer. If someone does not like the tone of a post is the best or only response to complain about that or attack the writer?
We had several threads and discussions about black backgrounds, pinpoint imaging and fancy audiofile cables outside of Peter's system thread. I gave him a hard time about his use of 'fancy'. Sure it is derogatory in a way, but not entirely out of balance considering what some audiophile cables cost. What I have not heard is a defense of the artifacts or sonic virtues unique to stereo reproduction. Maybe someone should make a case for those, instead saying 'I am offended by that". The only one who has is Lavigne who says his system sounds better than live music. Should we state our beliefs and goals in order to please everyone?
If all someone has is being offended where does that leave us? That does not move the discussion forward. Better to say 'I disagree', state why and offer an alternative view. If one is too intimidated to reply, better to say nothing than throw a stone and run away.
I totally agree with you. It is obvious that both sides have strong opinions. If one side does not agree with the usage of the term natural sound, one should not try to tell that his usage is wrong and not in line with the rest of community. There is freedom of speech. As long as it does not hurt other people, freedom of speech should be respected. This hobby is very subjective.
Dear Tango,
When one part goes in a thread about solid state amplifiers (CH) a week ago writing
"I am surprised at how fast the term natural has become a popular descriptor. I see it in use all over the forum. Perhaps I am just imagining it, but I thought it was kind of a dirty word, way too vague, and that few understood it’s meaning in audio terms"
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/ch-precision-10-series.32193/post-822074
what are you expecting? The current discussion on Natural Sound (TM) did not start in this thread, but in a thread concerning mainly "artificial sounding" systems and later migrated here.
I am saying we by now know how each of us hold on to our own belief. Let's try to hold our breath a little. " Sleep over it for a night before hitting Send." At least I practice this and from what I have seen MikeL does this too. And move on to talk something more positive and productive like you were discussing Alexia V.
Sorry, I have my own personal guidelines for posting - feel free to have your own, but will hit Send when I think convenient on the subjects I choose, as most others do.
Fortunately some people understand my posts on the current subject and consider them positive and productive. Some others disagree with them, it is natural in an high-end forum.
BTW, I would not be posting anymore on the subject in this thread for now if it was not for your unfair words on both sides posters intentions.
nothing so broad as that. but there are cases where i prefer it. as Marty might say; depends on the performance and where you sit. but i'm certainly not afraid to express my views on the subject. i know what my ears tell me in the specific situations. just my opinions. in my system.
our goal should be to exchange ideas, learn and enjoy the interaction. personally i enjoy the process of posting. organizing my thoughts and making a case. also making friends is ok. a bit of good will and sincere intentions is required to carry on. it is ok to please, but we do need some courage of convictions too. with a degree of diplomacy. and then before hitting 'post'.....a moment of reflection.
if we would not say something to someone's face, don't write it.
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My biggest problem is telling people to their face what I think. I got real fast as a kid.
Side?
Have these parties gone fully around the bend. Or are we still witness to serpentine blending of high roads giving way to perceived right of claim any stones fell naturally.
After what seem endless fait accompli. Sincere threat to make slings from a cloak of which no other may possess the very fabric of would've at least allowed claiming some worth came about through memorable remarks. Hate to admit this, but I think even the normally vigilant censors are beyond bored.
I packed up the Micro Seiki SX8000 II and the original American Sound AS1000 to make room for the new AS2000. I am very grateful for having had the opportunity to compare these three turntables in my system. I lived with the SX 8000 II for about a year and a half and had the AS1000 for about a month. Here are some photos of the turntables in the room, the nine boxes/crates/Pelican case of those two tables awaiting David's shipping company, and the two new Pelican cases for the AS2000. They were picked up and put on pallets for shipping back to Utah and I am told that they arrived safely. Member cdk84 was here for the unpacking and listening comparisons of all three tables, and repacking of the two that were sent off. I appreciate having his help and discussing his listening impressions. The whole process was a very worthwhile learning experience. All three tables are fantastic, but they do sound different, and understanding those differences, and getting to experience them in my own system was a real treat.
What is the blackish box on the floor between your rack and lefthand Vitavox?
Power supply for the AS2000 ?
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