Natural Sound

One wonders if you would have explained anything if the reactions from Bonzo, Brad, and Tim would have been different.
Of course I would have. Like I said I was teasing. Whether I wrote it myself or asked a bot to help me write it doesn't make any difference. I just happened to get inspired by playing around with ChatGPT (which I consider a tool, not unlike a spell checker). I was impressed enough at the results I was getting (with all sorts of different subject matter and use-cases) that I decided to have some fun and try using it for a post. It writes much better than I do, lol. Perhaps you would have been so impressed with my writing that you would have rewarded me by gifting me your new turntable.

I did find it amusing that it immediately got a few likes.

I don't think any of my posts, whether written by me or a tool, can ever be considered reliable. I probably have 1/2 the IQ of the average member here.
 
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Whether I wrote it myself or asked a bot to help me write it doesn't make any difference.

Ian, Yes you did get a few likes and then you got a bit of pushback. The reactions were based on the assumption that it was your content and your opinion.

You asked the same question twice just reversing the subject. You presented it as the machine’s response, not the bot helping you.. It is interesting that you don’t think it makes a difference.

You asked very broad questions and got a very general response. I wonder how the machine would respond to you asking, “What is a ‘natural sound’ in audio?” Natural sound is the subject of the thread, not whether a vintage or modern audio system sounds better.

Here is one man’s opinion: https://www.audiomasterclass.com/blog/what-is-a-natural-sound-in-audio
 
Absolutely right Phil. The only other seats that comes close in my experience, for "central and close" are in the Dress Circle Boxes at Powell Hall in St. Louis. I spent 12 years in Box N Seats 1 and 2 in that hall. Sound to die for. Actually kept the seats for 2 years after I moved to Dallas but I didn't use them enough to keep them in perpetuity so I gave them up. I still regret it!
An amusing if somewhat irrelevant story. I have been asked how I ever got such great seats in Powell Hall when I first arrived in St Louis in 1990. It generally take 10-20 years and a lot of patron donations (not in my league) to move up the seat "food chain" to get these coveted seats. Well I decided that before purchasing season seats, I would go visit the hall and ended up speaking directly with the woman who does the patron seat assignments. I asked her if it would be possible to go in the hall, and try some different seats, while she would go on center stage and simply clap her hands as I moved around the hall. The hall was closed but she turned on all the lights and allowed me to do just that. She naturally assumed I was not in my right mind as nobody had ever asked her to do that in her 50 year career., but she graciously obliged. Right before deciding which seats I could get that were available,. we got off on a conversation involving some of the great conductors who helmed the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra over the course of her career. Remarkably, we agreed fervently on a name who we thought was spectacular, and surprisingly on a conductor name who we both thought sucked. Apparently that's when the light went on for her that I might be worthy of some great seats. When I received my seat assignments, I was shocked and also somewhat saddened since I knew the only way to get those seats was probably because a patron died, thus freeing them up for re-assignment. I met that woman several times at concerts during the 12 years I was in STL, and she always reminded me that nobody before or since had ever asked her to clap from the stage while moving around the entire hall to hear which seats they might like. She always seemed amused that I was bat-shit crazy about my seats... and she was not wrong!

Unfortunately, when I moved to DFW, I tried that same trick with the head of seating at Meyerson Hall (a fabulous sounding hall) and was basically told to drop dead!
 
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An amusing if somewhat irrelevant story. I have been asked how I ever got such great seats in Powell Hall when I first arrive in St Louis in 1990. It generally take 10-20 years and a lot of patron donations (not in my league) to move up the seat "food chain" to get these coveted seats. Well I decided that before purchasing season seats, I would go visit the hall and ended up speaking directly with the woman who does the patron seat assignments. I asked her if it would be possible to go in the hall, and try some different seats, while she would go on center stage and simply clap her hands as I moved around the hall. The hall was closed but she turned on all the lights and allowed me to do just that. She naturally assumed I was not in my right mind as nobody had ever asked her to do that in her 50 year career., but she graciously obliged. Right before deciding which seats I could get that were available,. we got off on a conversation involving some of the great conductors who helmed the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra over the course of her career. Remarkably, we agreed fervently on a name who we thought was spectacular, and surprisingly on a conductor name who we both thought sucked. Apparently that's when the light went on for her that I might be worthy of some great seats. When I received my seat assignments, I was shocked and also somewhat saddened since I knew the only way to get those seats was probably because a patron died, thus freeing them up for re-assignment. I met that woman several times at concerts during the 12 years I was in STL, and she always reminded me that nobody before or since had ever asked her to clap from the stage while moving around the entire hall to hear which seats I might like. She always seemed amused that I was bat-shit crazy about my seats... and she was not wrong!

Unfortunately, when I moved to DFW, I tried that same trick with the head of seating at Meyerson Hall (a fabulous sounding hall) and was basically told to drop dead!
Great story Marty... enthusiasm does bring its rewards !
We snagged great season seats to the ACO at the beggining of the season in our local hall... 2 lonely seats in a sea of booked seats ... you know immediately what that means, kinda sad.
Always wanted to get to the meyerson. It has the ability to increase its volume via opening to huge chambers off the hall. The perfectionist way to adjust reverb time. An heroic design that I dont think has been done elswhere
Cheers
Phil
 
I recently learned an important lesson: The presentation of music from open back corner horn speakers can improve with careful fine tuning of position and orientation.

I had known from experimenting with my former Magico speakers that the sound improved when I made very small adjustments to optimize their position and orientation and symmetry. I simply assumed that my corner horns would not benefit from such attention. I was wrong.

I live in an old house with uneven floorboards, sloping floors and non smooth, non vertical walls. These imperfections from what one might expect of new, modern construction are not huge, but they seem to matter. The floor at each corner slopes downward slightly, one corner more than the other. The walls are not quite plum. The speakers include instructions for foam strips along the top edge of the base cabinet and vertically in the back corner, symmetrical for each side. The rear corner of the bass cabinet is actually cut short by a few inches. Each side with the wall forms the flare of a rear loaded bass horn. For improved bass response and coupling to the walls and room, Vitavox recommends sealing these four edges per speaker with a dense foam.

About a week ago I removed the top cabinet enclosing each compression driver, horn unit and crossover. DDK suggested I place a spirit level on the top of the bass cabinet. It is a flat surface and supports the horn and crossover. I noticed that each speaker tilted forward, one slightly more than the other and that each speaker was slightly tilted.

The furniture designer who built my rack cut very precisely a series of 2.5" X 2.5" wood shims varying in thickness by 1/32". I had four samples of ten different thickness to play with. These were made to use to level my equipment rack on my uneven floor. I had a bunch of shims left over, so I decided to place a few in combination under each of the front corners of each speaker. The CN-191 cabinets have hard brass furniture disks hammered into the wood like a large tack at the two front corners, so the bottom of the cabinets are slightly raised off of the floor anyway. I placed the shims under these brass disks.

During this process, I noticed that I could slide each speaker slightly deeper into each corner and orient them for a more even/uniform fit compressing the foam a bit further and creating a better seal with the wall. The speakers were raised roughly 1/4" to 5/8" in the front and adjusted by 1/32" to 3/16" side to side. Now plum and level and more tightly pushed into the corners, I placed the horn cabinet back on top of the bass cabinet and listened to some music.

The sound was immediately different. There was more bass energy and focus, but something was slightly off. There was also a bit more contrast but less nuance. I was surprised that it had such an effect on the presentation. I knew from initially installing the speakers, that these sixty year old cabinets needed time to settle and to acclimate to the new environment (temperature/humidity). At that time, the electronics and drivers also needed time to loosen up after being rarely used for so many years. I decided to wait a while before listening critically to the changes with a larger variety of music.

The sound continued to change a bit and after three or four days, the system was settled and stable. Music basically sounds more natural than it did before, more present, more alive. The four strings in a quartet have more distinct timbre. Resolution has improved so I hear a more realistic presentation of both the notes' fundamentals and harmonics. There is more nuance in the playing and volume changes. The lower cello notes have more power, the body resonates more, and all the strings have more weight. The same with piano. The notes are clearer, the highs are cleaner and the lows have a new heft and weight. There is more body to the whole range. The pianist's left and right hands are easier to follow.

I played the Sheffield Drum Track. I like this for sheer power and dynamics, but much can also be learned from the different percussion tones. The kick/bass drum is more solid and explosive, the brush work is cleaner and more delicate. The cymbals have more tonal color, more brass tone, and they are less hard/white/splashy sounding. The snare drum sounds less congealed, so each lightning quick tap is more distinct and clean. The overall pace and flow is more engaging. There is more energy filling the room.

These speakers have open backs, so how they couple with the walls seems to be very important. The walls are in essence a part of the cabinet. The orientation of the mid/upper horn also seems to matter. They are now level and even which I think likely contributes to the increased focus I am hearing.

It is a fascinating hobby, and there seems to be so much to learn. I continue to respect and appreciate the importance of set up within a particular room context. And despite having a fairly stable system now, I continue to experiment and look for ways to improve the sound. Oddly enough, I thought to check the speakers' positioning/orientation after I read someone's comment to Ron in his system thread about the importance of confirming that his four speaker towers were all plum. It is strange how these things develop.
 
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Kudos for having the curiosity to explore this, and congratulations on the improved sound!
 
Peter,
That's great that you were able to enhance the performance of your system for next to no $$ !

Scott
 
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I took delivery today of my new Lamm LP1 phonostage. It replaces my one-box LP2.1 Deluxe phonostage that I bought almost two years ago from David Karmeli. At that time, I was not ready to buy both the four-box LL1.1 preamp and the three-box LP1. After hearing the LP1 twice now in Utah and speaking extensively to both David and to Tim, I decided to buy the matching Signature series phono stage. It is very difficult to find a used LP1, so I bought it new. It was built for me last week, tested for specification compliance after a 72 hour break-in period at the factory and then crated and shipped.

The manual states that it needs another 3-4 days break-in in the new system. I hooked it up and let it run for about ten minutes and put on an LP. The improvement in sound was both immediate and obvious. I will share my impressions later after I have had a chance to better understand what this marvel of design is doing.

In the meantime, I will be designing and building a new small two tier rack with steel plates that will likely slide in to the right of my main rack where I keep the records that are in current rotation.
 
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Congratulations, Peter! That is a wonderful upgrade!
 
That’d be a super exciting unpack Peter, I love a sea of simple honest beautiful black boxes… looks great! Congratulations.
 
Congratulations, Peter! That is a wonderful upgrade!

Thank you Ron and Tao. Yes, a sea of black boxes. I had not done a direct comparison before, but the improvement is significant, as it should be. All of their products are great, but the Signature series (and ML2) is really quite special. It is all very exciting.
 

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