There are many things to like here, but the tone of the midrange is quite different than what I hear on the album. It could be a lot of reverb in that frequency range. I don't know.
Yes hopkins, I do hear quite a difference. I also hear differences between every video of an original analog vinyl record played by on a turntable in a system in a room recorded by an iPhone when it is compared to a different digital version of the recording played directly without the system/room/iPhone and ADC conversion mixed into the result.
The midrange is not the only difference I hear. The volume is quite different, as is the way the high frequencies are presented. My vdH Colibri cartridge would also present the recording differently.
Yes hopkins, I do hear quite a difference. I also hear differences between every video of an original analog vinyl record played by on a turntable in a system in a room recorded by an iPhone when it is compared to a different digital version of the recording played directly without the system/room/iPhone and ADC conversion mixed into the result.
The midrange is not the only difference I hear. The volume is quite different, as is the way the high frequencies are presented. My vdH Colibri cartridge would also present the recording differently.
The few times I have compared an LP (played on a turntable) with a digital version (CD or file) of the same album, I have never heard significant differences in tonality.
The few times I have compared an LP (played on a turntable) with a digital version (CD or file) of the same album, I have never heard significant differences in tonality.
Are you saying you do not hear a difference between a record and a file of the same music on the same system Live in a room, or on a system video over YouTube, or a vinyl record of a system in a room recorded by an iPhone versus a YouTube digital file with no system or room involved?
Digital files and original vinyl records sound different. I hear it on YouTube system videos and live in a room. This example is not unique in my experience.
Digital files and original vinyl records sound different. I hear it on YouTube system videos and live in a room. This example is not unique in my experience.
So do I. In this instance, what I here from your Kuijken LP video sounds more like a violin. It is a more raw natural sound whereas the other video is slightly smothed over.
Given that one is a stereo system in your room and the other is ... what? ... not likely acoustically coupled, there will be differences. The youtube 'Editio Classica' video is likely not sourced through loudspeakers.
It is unclear what the point is in making such a compare-contrast. Whatever it is, imo it is better off in the Acoustically-Coupled thread or somewhere else.. I'd prefer not seeing one's system thread turn into a youtube/home system comparison thread describing generalized commonalities and differences of audiophile attributes - but that's just my opinion, it's your thread.
Given that one is a stereo system in your room and the other is ... what? ... not likely acoustically coupled, there will be differences. The youtube 'Editio Classica' video is likely not sourced through loudspeakers.
@PeterA
The LL1.1 Sig has a Direct input as well as switched inputs. Are you using the Direct input for the cable from the LP1 Sig? If so have you tried the switched inputs? I am curious how much of a difference the switching makes.
@PeterA
The LL1.1 Sig has a Direct input as well as switched inputs. Are you using the Direct input for the cable from the LP1 Sig? If so have you tried the switched inputs? I am curious how much of a difference the switching makes.
My Emotive Epifania Custom linestage also has a Direct input as well as several switched inputs. The Direct sounds significantly better than the switched inputs.
I know what I am playing when I listen to an original vinyl record on my turntable. Then, when I make an iPhone recording of my system playing that recording, I know what I am listening too. I have no idea what that "not a system video" of some streamed digital file of unknown origin really is. I do not know how it is related to the original analog recording, so such comparisons have little meaning to me.
Now, if you stream the YouTube digital file through your digital source and system and record it with an iPhone and then replay it through YouTube, then I can see an argument for comparing the two to judge the effect the audio system and recording process have on the playback of that exact same digital YouTube file.
I know what I am playing when I listen to an original vinyl record on my turntable. Then, when I make an iPhone recording of my system playing that recording, I know what I am listening too. I have no idea what that "not a system video" of some streamed digital file of unknown origin really is. I do not know how it is related to the original analog recording, so such comparisons have little meaning to me.
Now, if you stream the YouTube digital file through your digital source and system and record it with an iPhone and then replay it through YouTube, then I can see an argument for comparing the two to judge the effect the audio system and recording process have on the playback of that exact same digital YouTube file.
I naturally listened to that same track (digital version) on my system, and I was curious to know what your opinion of your system was. If you want to share your thoughts, that would be great. There are things I really like in the sound - and things I had questions about (hard to tell from a video what could be the result of a recording). But sure, when I can get my hands on an iPhone, I'll be glad to share a recording of that track on my speakers, though the comparison with my speakers is not what I was interested about.
I naturally listened to that same track (digital version) on my system, and I was curious to know what your opinion of your system was. If you want to share your thoughts, that would be great. There are things I really like in the sound - and things I had questions about….
I do not know what questions you have. You can read the first five or so pages of this thread to learn my goal, the approach I take to achieve that goal, and whether or not I think my system meets that goal. Later in the thread I talk about the additions of my turntable and new phono stage and how they move the sound further toward my goal. My various system videos throughout the thread document progress with regard to set up and component improvements.
Jim Smith taught me my first important lesson: to value Tone, Dynamics, and Presence and to strive for an emotional connection to the recordings. I prioritized those attributes while trying to also improve soundstage and imaging
I get a sense of the dynamics and presence of your system, but the tone is what I was curious about. I'll test out an iphone at some point and get a better idea of how iphone recordings convey tone. No problem...
Vladimir Lamm spoke about the left and right hands of the pianist and how they should sound distinct and separate. One should “hear” the different hands.
I share your distaste for what you and I call hi-fi artifacts, including clearly delineated sonic images or pinpoint imaging. How do you reconcile this with your post above?
In a concert hall do you hear the left and right hands of the pianist as sounding distinct and separate?
I share your distaste for what you and I call hi-fi artifacts, including clearly delineated sonic images or pinpoint imaging. How do you reconcile this with your post above?
In a concert hall do you hear the left and right hands of the pianist as sounding distinct and separate?
1. There is nothing to reconcile. I am not talking about imaging. I am talking about high resolution and presenting the musician's intent. Two hands, ten fingers, all sounding distinct.
2. Yes, also in the home when people play the piano.
1. There is nothing to reconcile. I am not talking about imaging. I am talking about high resolution and presenting the musician's intent. Two hands, ten fingers, all sounding distinct.
2. Yes, also in the home when people play the piano.
Whoa, really? When I listen to someone playing the piano, I listen to the music, and I hear the sound of a piano. Granted, I am not a pianist myself, and have never even attempted to play a piano. I get the score and chords dictates what keys each hand plays – but to imply that someone could hear a distinction between the left and right imagines a level of analytical processing in the brain that is the last place I want to go when I’m listening to music.
Peter’s right on this one. It isn’t about imaging just that each hand often plays a different thing so it is like hearing two streams with different weight and speed and attack.
however, I don’t get what is special about Lamm saying this as this to me is obvious and will come with any decent resolution, though it will improve obviously with better resolution. Whether one hears it or not Is dependent on the listener. No different then say, if two guitarists were playing but one was supporting the other
And yes it very different to the concept of pinpoint imaging etc being discussed
Whoa, really? When I listen to someone playing the piano, I listen to the music, and I hear the sound of a piano. Granted, I am not a pianist myself, and have never even attempted to play a piano. I get the score and chords dictates what keys each hand plays – but to imply that someone could hear a distinction between the left and right imagines a level of analytical processing in the brain that is the last place I want to go when I’m listening to music.
musical knowledge can fill in the blanks compared to someone lacking knowledge watching a video of a person playing the piano. i don't pick up left hand/right hand listening blind. but watching a video i can get a feel for it. i'm not going to appreciate this kind of thing to the degree someone with more music making knowledge might be able to.
OTOH i also don't think about the structure and technique as much of the music making so maybe i can be less distracted in my enjoyment, my mind is free from the analysis. yet i can see that the experience can be improved with that knowledge too.
it's all good. we can just take the music for what it offers us on our own terms. and make the best of that. it's not important that i have an intimate feel for 'left hand/right hand'. but i respect it's important for some.
over time even the uneducated can acquire a taste for things if your mind is open to it. and some music just grabs me even though i'm blissfully clueless.
Whoa, really? When I listen to someone playing the piano, I listen to the music, and I hear the sound of a piano. Granted, I am not a pianist myself, and have never even attempted to play a piano. I get the score and chords dictates what keys each hand plays – but to imply that someone could hear a distinction between the left and right imagines a level of analytical processing in the brain that is the last place I want to go when I’m listening to music.
it is not about imaging. Ron is completely wrong in that assumption and no reconciliation is required between the two quotes he juxtaposed out of context.
The observation I made about the new Lamm phono stage and what I was hearing from a piano recording reminded me of the conversation I had with David about the resolution allowing me to hear the individual hands (fingers) of the musician just as they can be heard live in the concert hall or played for a bunch of listeners in the living room.
The LP1 signature phono stage allows me to hear more of what the musicians are doing compared to my LP 2.1. There is more clarity, less homogenization. This is the point I was trying to convey when sharing my listening impressions while listening to the piano recording. It’s not about having knowledge of Music‘s structure. It’s simply about hearing more of the recording which leads to greater understanding, and for me enjoyment, of the music.
