Natural Sound

[morricab]

You should just get streamed into a digital crossover and room correction 5 way, easy peasy bass with class D amps all the way through

Great idea….can I glue some tubes on top of my Class D amps for the sake of nostalgia?

 

[morricab]

i think it's fair game to retort claims that get made. so when a big deal is made that a system is 'natural' and yet only uses SET's as amplification, then it's not unreasonable to counter that perspective. which is completely different thing than whether i agree with those counter claims. but the action<->reaction is normal stuff. and the stronger the claims of 'natural' the more valid the basis for the retort. the strongest claims of natural will draw the largest response. just how it goes.

i had an SET in my system and absolutely appreciated the way it did bass. but also recognized it's shortcomings. so a trade-off which calls for a decision on system direction listeners make all the time. it's not right/wrong or good/bad. but there are real world trade-offs and some feel that one can retain most of one approach while enjoying all of the other approach. at least that is the idea.

avoid strong claims, and that whole contentious stuff can be avoided. or go with it.

Bass does not one’s system natural make…Yoda

 

[morricab]

another genre…boy with a guitar

Universums or Lowther based speakers?

 

[bonzo75]

Universums or Lowther based speakers?

We had this discussion. It’s the uni

 

[morricab]

We had this discussion. It’s the uni

It was for a different piece of music I thought. Didn’t know if you were cycling back and forth between speakers during that session

 

[PeterA]

Bass does not one’s system natural make…Yoda

Brad, I think bass quality is essential for natural sound. Bass extension flat to the lowest octave is not essential, in my view.

 

[bonzo75]

It was for a different piece of music I thought. Didn’t know if you were cycling back and forth between speakers during that session

We discussed on both this one and the Shostakovich string quartet

 

[Al M.]

Great idea….can I glue some tubes on top of my Class D amps for the sake of nostalgia?

This sticker might do:

 

[AkiKhan]

Resonates with me. Great account that speaks to my objectives.

So many of today's gear focuses almost entirely on 'flat frequency response'. All fine and well, but there is more, much more, as this excellent account of Peter's own journey reveals. 'Naturalness' is an elusive quality.

 

[PeterA]

Resonates with me. Great account that speaks to my objectives.

So many of today's gear focuses almost entirely on 'flat frequency response'. All fine and well, but there is more, much more, as this excellent account of Peter's own journey reveals. 'Naturalness' is an elusive quality.

Thank you AkiKhan for finding my system thread and contributing to the discussion. I am glad it resonates, and I appreciate the kind words.

 

[tima]

Bass does not one’s system natural make…Yoda

necessary but not sufficient

 

[tima]

But of course, perceptions are subjective. Peter may have different thoughts, we all hear differently.

It only gets contentious on the forum when someone tries to tell someone their subjective perceptions are wrong, doubts their hearing abilities, when it becomes a "contest" who has more experience with unamplified live music etc.

It is easy to say "we all hear differently".

Perceptions are subjective in the sense that we each have our own ears but I don't believe "we all hear differently." Granted some people may have keener hearing than others, may be able to hear higher frequencies than others, but I don't understand that as hearing differently. We each have human ears. Some people may not be able to pass all the elements of a hearing test that someone else may. There may be slight differences in hearing due to small differences in the physical structure of the ear, but those are not sufficient to prevent each of us from hearing the difference between, say, the sound of a clarinet and the sound of an English horn or tell a marimba from a glockenspiel.

I don't see forum talk that tells someone their perceptions are wrong. I don't know what that means.

What I do believe is that we have different preferences in sonics as we have different preferences in music. We probably have different sonic templates or catalogs based on different past experiences. We have differently abilities to describe what we hear -- there may be more here with the ability to describe circuitry or talk about Thiele/Small parameters than talk about sound characteristics, to describe what they hear. I believe we hear more similarly than differently.

 

[Rexp]

It is easy to say "we all hear differently".

Perceptions are subjective in the sense that we each have our own ears but I don't believe "we all hear differently." Granted some people may have keener hearing than others, may be able to hear higher frequencies than others, but I don't understand that as hearing differently. We each have human ears. Some people may not be able to pass all the elements of a hearing test that someone else may. There may be slight differences in hearing due to small differences in the physical structure of the ear, but those are not sufficient to prevent each of us from hearing the difference between, say, the sound of a clarinet and the sound of an English horn or tell a marimba from a glockenspiel.

I don't see forum talk that tells someone their perceptions are wrong. I don't know what that means.

What I do believe is that we have different preferences in sonics as we have different preferences in music. We probably have different sonic templates or catalogs based on different past experiences. We have differently abilities to describe what we hear -- there may be more here with the ability to describe circuitry or talk about Thiele/Small parameters than talk about sound characteristics, to describe what they hear. I believe we hear more similarly than differently.

If you check out some of the YouTube comparison threads you'll find some hear very differently to others.

 

[Al M.]

It is easy to say "we all hear differently".

Perceptions are subjective in the sense that we each have our own ears but I don't believe "we all hear differently." Granted some people may have keener hearing than others, may be able to hear higher frequencies than others, but I don't understand that as hearing differently. We each have human ears. Some people may not be able to pass all the elements of a hearing test that someone else may. There may be slight differences in hearing due to small differences in the physical structure of the ear, but those are not sufficient to prevent each of us from hearing the difference between, say, the sound of a clarinet and the sound of an English horn or tell a marimba from a glockenspiel.

I don't see forum talk that tells someone their perceptions are wrong. I don't know what that means.

What I do believe is that we have different preferences in sonics as we have different preferences in music. We probably have different sonic templates or catalogs based on different past experiences. We have differently abilities to describe what we hear -- there may be more here with the ability to describe circuitry or talk about Thiele/Small parameters than talk about sound characteristics, to describe what they hear. I believe we hear more similarly than differently.

One thing is the physical hearing, which may be similar among people as you describe. Another is the interpretation by our brains/minds of what we are hearing, guided by, as you mention, preferences and experiences. Even though some people may converge on this more than others, in that sense we all hear differently.

It is obvious from the context that I was referring to the latter. I was talking about perception of what is "natural" in the post that you partially quote.

 

[bonzo75]

guided by, as you mention, preferences and experiences. In that sense, we all hear differently.

We hear similarly. All those with reasonable exposure to live, to different types of gear, and to different types of sources prefer to have horns with analog and good records for various genres of music. All the people I know of, as you say, are guided more by experience, or lack thereof.

 

[Al M.]

We hear similarly. All those with reasonable exposure to live, to different types of gear, and to different types of sources prefer to have horns with analog and good records for various genres of music. All the people I know of, as you say, are guided more by experience, or lack thereof.

Well, that's your particular opinion, which we all know too well. You never fail to impress it on us.

 

[bonzo75]

Well, that's your particular opinion, which we all know too well. You never fail to impress it on us.

Yes it pains me to read the intellectual dishonesty of people who have hardly heard proper horn set ups come and say how they have never heard a good horn system in 20 years and/or horns have that dreaded shout.

 

[Al M.]

Yes it pains me to read the intellectual dishonesty of people who have hardly heard proper horn set ups come and say how they have never heard a good horn system in 20 years and/or horns have that dreaded shout.

The intellectual dishonesty lies in the way you make your false argument.

 

[tima]

If you check out some of the YouTube comparison threads you'll find some hear very differently to others.

I will give you a tip as far as responding goes. Write for your reader; don't ask him do the work you are not doing. Put some effort into your posting if your point is important to you. I will not go searching for, in this case, Youtube comparison video threads to support the point you may be making. If you have a couple specific examples that make your claim, include them in your post. I mean this with a friendly tone.

 

[bonzo75]

The intellectual dishonesty lies in the way you make your false argument.

Who was that guy who said he has compared originals to reissues, and originals aren’t special, and even probed, turns out thee ones he compared, on one visit, were 1970s and 70s pop?