Naturalness of Sarah McLachlan Vocals - Analog Versus Digital

[rsorren1]

I am a BIG Sarah McLachlan fan. She has a magnificent voice. I’ve never heard her voice on LP. Of the CDs that I own, Surfacing and Mirrorball, her voice sounds “digital” on Surfacing and compressed on Mirrorball. I prefer to go to Tidal and stream “Afterglow Live” or “Sarah McLachlan Live Acoustic EP 2003”. From a digital perspective, these are the best I’ve heard her voice.

 

[BruceD]

I also like Ms McLachlan--no one has mentioned her 'Rarites B-sides and other stuff'

--obviously a Digital I feel but Ok sounding

BruceD

 

[Atmasphere]

My introduction to SM was a Manufacture 12" single (extended version) on which she was the guest vox. Here's a link:

A couple of years later I heard 'Into the Fire' and because it wasn't on LP, ordered in about 50 copies of the import, which was on LP. Back in those days the labels were pretty precious about copyright, and imports were considered an infringement (which they totally were not...). If you see an original copy of that vinyl that isn't the Classic Records or later reissue, its probably because I brought it in.

So at a Stereophile party (back in the 90s before Stereophile I suggested to Michael Hobson that her albums would be a good reissue project- and a few months later Fumbling Towards Ecstasy appeared. I think its a better sounding recording than Surfacing. I had also mentioned Peter Gabriel at that party. Sheesh!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Good work on that Ralph!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Acoustic Sounds lists a 45 RPM re-issue of Surfacing.





In the description of the release we see: "Now, hear Surfacing on its definitive vinyl version — two 200-gram LPs cut at 45 RPM by legendary mastering engineer Bernie Grundman from the original analog tapes."

We know Surfacing is a digital recording, so how can there be any "original analog tapes"?

 

[cjfrbw]

Maybe it was a multi-format recording with feeds to both both digital and analog. Our esteemed sound engineers seem to do that quite often.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That is possible, but what I found and posted in Post #1 hereof suggests, I think, only a digital recording:

"Pierre Marchand, a musical collaborator with, and the recording engineer for, Sarah McLachlan, said in an interview that . . . Surfacing was all done on a RADAR.”

. . . The Otari RADAR is a multi-track digital recorder."

Apparently Pierre became enchanted with digital recording over time because it was easier for him to edit and to work with.

 

[c1ferrari]

Ron,

Perhaps, the stereo mix digital master was recorded to an analog deck and this is referred to as the "original analog tapes"?
If so, curious about the entire repro --> record signal chain from DAC to analog record deck.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,

Perhaps, the stereo mix digital master was recorded to an analog deck and this is referred to as the "original analog tapes"?
If so, curious about the entire repro --> record signal chain from DAC to analog record deck.

I am curious too!

 

[rbbert]

I'm skeptical about any recording provenance when a major record company is involved anywhere in the chain. History has too many examples of stretching the truth to outright lying.

 

[kach22i]

Sadly, no SM on vinyl in my collection.

Gotta fix that oversight.

 

[Solypsa]

Analog layback (passing a digital mix 'through' tape for various effect) was pretty common in the latter 90s. Since mastering at that time (now too) almost always involved an da/ad trip to accommodate analog processing this was (is) pretty easy to add to the recipe.

I don't know about the SM albums...but there is a lot of processing on them...

 

[Al M.]

Analog layback (passing a digital mix 'through' tape for various effect) was pretty common in the latter 90s. Since mastering at that time (now too) almost always involved an da/ad trip to accommodate analog processing this was (is) pretty easy to add to the recipe.

I don't know about the SM albums...but there is a lot of processing on them...

Processing is indeed the issue on much of this stuff. Naturalness of voices is NOT an issue of analog vs digital, but of recording and mastering.

There are plenty of digitally recorded vocals, or vocals recorded in analog and transferred to digital, that sound supremely natural. Same for analog only.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Processing is indeed the issue on much of this stuff. Naturalness of voices is NOT an issue of analog vs digital, but of recording and mastering.

There are plenty of digitally recorded vocals, or vocals recorded in analog and transferred to digital, that sound supremely natural.

. . . .

I wish I could agree, dear friend, but I am afraid I cannot agree. The naturalness and lack of dryness of Sarah's voice on Fumbling Towards Ecstasy versus Surfacing I believe proves this wrong.

Even if digital-ish sound is caused by processing rather than by recording, isn't that a distinction without a difference if the goal is natural voices? What does it matter which stage of digitization causes the sonic damage?

I personally have not found "plenty of digitally recorded vocals, or vocals recorded in analog and transferred to digital, that sound supremely natural." I have found two, or maybe a few. I am not sure what "supremely natural" means.

To me, it is "supremely natural" only if I am utterly unable to hear any hint or residue of digital sound or tell-tale digital "dryness." If I have trouble believing what I am listening to was actually recorded digitally, then it passes my test.

I appreciate that this is a statistically invalid sample set acquired with non-observable search criteria, but the new Suzanne Vega live cabaret release is the least digital sounding vocal -- or the first non-digital sounding digital recording -- I have ever heard in my life. It sounds so natural, so normal, I literally had trouble believing this album was digitally recorded. Prior to Suzanne Vega, I always thought Famous Blue Raincoat was a good digital recording, but, to my ears, it still exhibits a slight patina of the tell-tale "dryness" of digital.

 

[Al M.]

I wish I could agree, dear friend, but I am afraid I cannot agree. The naturalness and lack of dryness of Sarah's voice on Fumbling Towards Ecstasy versus Surfacing I believe proves this wrong. And even if the digital-ish sound is caused by processing rather than by recording, isn't that a distinction without a difference if the goal is natural voices?

I personally have not found "plenty of digitally recorded vocals, or vocals recorded in analog and transferred to digital, that sound supremely natural." I have found two, or maybe a few. I am not sure what "supremely natural" means.

To me, it is "supremely natural" only if I am utterly unable to hear any hint or residue of digital sound or tell-tale digital "dryness." If I have trouble believing what I am listening to was actually recorded digitally, then it passes my test.

I appreciate that this is a statistically invalid sample set acquired with non-observable search criteria, but the new Suzanne Vega live cabaret release is the least digital sounding vocal I have ever heard in my entire life. It sounds so natural, so normal, I literally had trouble believing this album was digitally recorded. Prior to Suzanne Vega, I always thought Famous Blue Raincoat was a good digital recording, but, to my ears, it still exhibits a slight patina of the tell-tale "dryness" of digital.

Putting in another way, in my personal experience, I have never heard an example of converting an analog signal to digital with a result of improved sound.

Dear Ron, I listen mostly to vocals in classical music, where there is very little, if any, processing, certainly compared to pop. So that is my reference when it comes to digitally recorded vocals, or vocals recorded in analog on digital.

There is also hardly ever any dryness; these recordings of classical music are full of blending of hall or venue sound into the overall sound, something that Peter A. would call 'atmosphere'. This has become more apparent with recent improvements in both our systems, his purely analog based, mine digital.

I am glad that great examples of natural sound can also be found in pop, such as with the Suzanne Vega recording that you mentioned.

 

[morricab]

I am a big fan of Sarah McLachlan’s vocal performances and lyrics. I like several of the songs on Fumbling Towards Ecstasy and I think they are pretty well-recorded.

I like several of the songs on Surfacing, but I think they sound like typically bad-sounding digital. I can never just listen to those songs and relax and enjoy them. (As Kedar famously observed, I appear not to relax when listening to digital recordings. And he is correct.)

Pierre Marchand, a musical collaborator with, and the recording engineer for, Sarah McLachlan, said in an interview that he recorded “Fumbling on a Studer 827, and Surfacing was all done on a RADAR.”

The Studer 827 is a multi-track analog tape recorder. The Otari RADAR is a multi-track digital recorder.

I think the vocals on Surfacing (1997) sound dry, menthol and typically digital. I think the vocals on Fumbling Towards Ecstasy (1993) sound better — less dry and more organic and natural.

I think the songs on Fumbling Towards Ecstasy may have digital sampling mixed into them, but they are not totally digital recordings like the songs on Surfacing.

What do you think?

Always like fumbling...good album. The rest of Sarah Mc...meh...

 

[Ron Resnick]

What is the highest resolution download of Surfacing you have found?

From where did you purchase this download?

 

[rsorren1]

All, this thread got me interested in trying the Analogue Productions 45rpm LP Surfacing since I did not have any Sarah McLachlan recordings on LP. After listening to this recording twice, this is the best I’ve heard her voice sound; more natural, richer, on most (not all) tracks. She really is a wonderful performer. Talent!

 

[Ron Resnick]

All, this thread got me interested in trying the Analogue Productions 45rpm LP Surfacing since I did not have any Sarah McLachlan recordings on LP. After listening to this recording twice, this is the best I’ve heard her voice sound; more natural, richer, on most (not all) tracks. She really is a wonderful performer. Talent!

Have you listened to Fumbling Towards Ecstasy on LP?

How would you compare the naturalness of the sound of Sarah's voice on Fumbling Towards Ecstasy to the naturalness of the sound of Sarah's voice on Surfacing?

 

[rsorren1]

Ron, I don’t have Fumbling on LP. Sounds like a future purchase!