Need help with decision - high end integrated

[Jackl3y]

All, I seem to fail at generating engagement but hopefully I can get some good feedback on this.

As of now I am about set on either an Esoteric F-03a or a Mark Levinson 585

I’m not expecting anyone to tell me which to get, I’m hoping that the vast amount of experience here will point out some pros/cons/caviats of either. Experiences both positive and negative.

Esoteric Pros:
Class A (would be my first one)
Texture and nuance
Soundstaging
Connections
Would add matching cd player soon after
Reviews exceedingly positive

Esoteric Cons:
Relatively low wattage narrows speaker selection
No DAC

Mark Levinson Pros:
Excellent DAC
High output power
Sub out/crossover
Slightly more musical than the Esoteric
Reviews positive but not exceedingly so

Mark Levinson Cons:
Not class A
larger and heavier

Both have similar tonality. I’m sure either would do me just fine for years to come.


So if you have experience with either please chime in, let me know if I’m off base or if I’m missing something.

As always, I appreciate your input.

 

[dgale]

I enjoy my Pathos InPol (hybrid) Heritage MKii
Upgraded my Heritage to MKii. Much improved bass control.
Fully balanced Class A
80 watts
Run with Tannoy Kensington GRs
Went from D’Agostino Progression integrated to Pathos

Have not heard the Legacy but I’m sure it’s the bee’s knees.

 

[Jackl3y]

I enjoy my Pathos InPol (hybrid) Heritage MKii
Upgraded my Heritage to MKii. Much improved bass control.
Fully balanced Class A
80 watts
Run with Tannoy Kensington GRs
Went from D’Agostino Progression integrated to Pathos

Have not heard the Legacy but I’m sure it’s the bee’s knees.

Thanks. I’ve heard a Pathos system and for whatever reason it didn’t do it for me.

 

[Porsche]

chk your PM

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I enjoy my Pathos InPol (hybrid) Heritage MKii
Upgraded my Heritage to MKii. Much improved bass control.
Fully balanced Class A
80 watts
Run with Tannoy Kensington GRs
Went from D’Agostino Progression integrated to Pathos

Have not heard the Legacy but I’m sure it’s the bee’s knees.

Great integrated Pathos.

 

[Synaxis]

I've had many, many high end integrateds here to listen to.

I've heard only positives about the Esoteric. I would only caution Class A solid state is a more unique sound that may not work for you or have synergy with your system.

I've have 4 Class A integrateds and although some are better than others, it's just not a sound that I'm fond of.

 

[Jackl3y]

I've had many, many high end integrateds here to listen to.

I've heard only positives about the Esoteric. I would only caution Class A solid state is a more unique sound that may not work for you or have synergy with your system.

I've have 4 Class A integrateds and although some are better than others, it's just not a sound that I'm fond of.

Accuphase, in my experience (though not in my system) is too laid back. My current power amp is A/B and a “bottom up” sound which would lead me to go CODA as it’s the same type of sound. But I’m looking at an open, clear and transparent sound. I’ve heard both the amps in question but in unfamiliar systems years apart.

 

[Synaxis]

Accuphase, in my experience (though not in my system) is too laid back. My current power amp is A/B and a “bottom up” sound which would lead me to go CODA as it’s the same type of sound. But I’m looking at an open, clear and transparent sound. I’ve heard both the amps in question but in unfamiliar systems years apart.

The best class A I've heard - to my personal opinion - was the Luxman 595ASE.

 

[gleeds]

The DagA is expensive and may be more than you want to spend. Coda is excellent value for money and well-built, but I know the sound well and feel you can do better elsewhere.

What is your price cap, and what are your speakers now and perhaps your end-game down the road? That information would help the members considerably in terms of suggestions.

 

[Jackl3y]

The best class A I've heard - to my personal opinion - was the Luxman 595ASE.

Funny enough that was on my list until recently.

 

[Jackl3y]

The DagA is expensive and may be more than you want to spend. Coda is excellent value for money and well-built, but I know the sound well and feel you can do better elsewhere.

What is your price cap, and what are your speakers now and perhaps your end-game down the road? That information would help the members considerably in terms of suggestions.

I heard a Dag integrated at a local event and it was average. Considering the prices (and not forgetting the looks) I wanted to hate it, but I didn’t, it was however forgettable.

As for price and speakers, I’d like to stay under $15k, better yet under $10k. My current speakers are Heresy IV which I like but am interested in Focal, the larger JBLs (3900, 4700) Devore o/96 and maybe Qualio (sp?). My amp choice will ultimately push my decision on speakers (which is backwards-I know).

 

[Synaxis]

I heard a Dag integrated at a local event and it was average. Considering the prices (and not forgetting the looks) I wanted to hate it, but I didn’t, it was however forgettable.

As for price and speakers, I’d like to stay under $15k, better yet under $10k. My current speakers are Heresy IV which I like but am interested in Focal, the larger JBLs (3900, 4700) Devore o/96 and maybe Qualio (sp?). My amp choice will ultimately push my decision on speakers (which is backwards-I know).

I owned several different Klipsch Heritage speakers.

The JBL horns are very different sounding, but definitely a more neutral and cleaner sound than the Klispch.

Once you hear the resonances and cognition in the Klispch speakers, you can't unhear it.

With just a couple of minor inexpensive tweaks, they could have made the La Scala's much, much better than they are.

If I were to go back in time, I would have skipped the Klipsch and gone with the JBL's. It's all personal preference of course so there is no right or wrong.

 

[gleeds]

I heard a Dag integrated at a local event and it was average. Considering the prices (and not forgetting the looks) I wanted to hate it, but I didn’t, it was however forgettable.

As for price and speakers, I’d like to stay under $15k, better yet under $10k. My current speakers are Heresy IV which I like but am interested in Focal, the larger JBLs (3900, 4700) Devore o/96 and maybe Qualio (sp?). My amp choice will ultimately push my decision on speakers (which is backwards-I know).

Jacky, that is backward indeed. Despite their differences, there is undoubtedly a neutral amplifier for your target loudspeakers. Then, let the chosen speakers and cabling be the only choices needed. Try a Luxman, for sure.

I believe I suggested you consider integrating a tube in another of your threads. Klipsch no problem - Devores, no problem, JBLs perfect, Qualios just right. I recommended the Trafomatic Eos integrated at $11k. Dynamic, yes; detailed, yes; supple and tonally dense enough for the sensitive Devores and ultra-clean JBLs, yes; great bass on every one of your choices. The Eos uses readily available tubes with 7-10 thousand hours of use life and are dead reliable. She fits on a rack shelf and does not run hot. Private message me if you want to hear one or compare it to the Luxman, and as always, good luck.

 

[Synaxis]

I believe I suggested you consider integrating a tube in another of your threads.

This ^^^^^

In my opinion never miss an opportunity to use tubes over solid state. Tubes are awesome.

 

[Jackl3y]

@gleeds @Synaxis I was initially looking to go tubes. But I have a grand baby running around so I was looking at the Luxman LX380 or maybe the Canor (no tubes exposed). No possible way to hear the Canor first and while there is a Lux dealer nearby they tend to push what they like rather than what I want to hear. Admittedly, the relatively low wattage of the Lux means speakers I can use are drastically reduced. I listen to a wide variety of music, from large orchestral to grindcore and almost everything in between.
After that, the 595 came to mind, but then also the Esoteric and more recently the ML. I have heard the Esoteric and the ML but in systems and with music I wasn’t familiar.

 

[gleeds]

@gleeds @Synaxis I was initially looking to go tubes. But I have a grand baby running around so I was looking at the Luxman LX380 or maybe the Canor (no tubes exposed). No possible way to hear the Canor first and while there is a Lux dealer nearby they tend to push what they like rather than what I want to hear. Admittedly, the relatively low wattage of the Lux means speakers I can use are drastically reduced. I listen to a wide variety of music, from large orchestral to grindcore and almost everything in between.
After that, the 595 came to mind, but then also the Esoteric and more recently the ML. I have heard the Esoteric and the ML but in systems and with music I wasn’t familiar.

@gleeds @Synaxis I was initially looking to go tubes. But I have a grand baby running around so I was looking at the Luxman LX380 or maybe the Canor (no tubes exposed). No possible way to hear the Canor first and while there is a Lux dealer nearby they tend to push what they like rather than what I want to hear. Admittedly, the relatively low wattage of the Lux means speakers I can use are drastically reduced. I listen to a wide variety of music, from large orchestral to grindcore and almost everything in between.
After that, the 595 came to mind, but then also the Esoteric and more recently the ML. I have heard the Esoteric and the ML but in systems and with music I wasn’t familiar.

Unless you are willing to place the Traf on a higher shelf, it is probably not a good choice with the little ones running on the scene. The Eos comes with a plexiglass front plate that keeps adventurous hands away from the tubes. Good luck whichever way you go

 

[Synaxis]

@gleeds @Synaxis I was initially looking to go tubes. But I have a grand baby running around so I was looking at the Luxman LX380 or maybe the Canor (no tubes exposed). No possible way to hear the Canor first and while there is a Lux dealer nearby they tend to push what they like rather than what I want to hear. Admittedly, the relatively low wattage of the Lux means speakers I can use are drastically reduced. I listen to a wide variety of music, from large orchestral to grindcore and almost everything in between.
After that, the 595 came to mind, but then also the Esoteric and more recently the ML. I have heard the Esoteric and the ML but in systems and with music I wasn’t familiar.

I owned a Luxman LX-380.

I LOVED THIS AMP!

It is one of only 2 or 3 pieces in my history I miss and wish I hadn't sold it.

I'd love to still have one as one of my reference amps for review. It is THAT good.

 

[Jackl3y]

I owned a Luxman LX-380.

I LOVED THIS AMP!

It is one of only 2 or 3 pieces in my history I miss and wish I hadn't sold it.

I'd love to still have one as one of my reference amps for review. It is THAT good.

Interesting. What speakers were you running with the 380?

 

[Synaxis]

Interesting. What speakers were you running with the 380?

I had several come and go, but the long term ones were the Klipsch Cornwall IV's and then La Scala IV's.

I wish I still had it now to run with my Tobian's.

 

[Jackl3y]

I had several come and go, but the long term ones were the Klipsch Cornwall IV's and then La Scala IV's.

I wish I still had it now to run with my Tobian's.

Hmmmmm. I guess I have more to consider then. I think it’s funny that Esoteric and ML seem to be the most disliked brands on the forums. Less so here and AA, but otherwise people throw hate. I’d love to hear those Tobians too!