True, there is something to that, yet only to a certain extent. At AXPONA for example there were rooms that received consistently negative reviews, and ones that received consistently positive reviews. You can't simply brush that fact aside with the assertion that all opinions are subjective.
Negative show report posts... enough is enough.
- Thread starter Peter Breuninger
- Start date
True, there is something to that, yet only to a certain extent. At AXPONA for example there were rooms that received consistently negative reviews, and ones that received consistently positive reviews. You can't simply brush that fact aside with the assertion that all opinions are subjective.
I had an interesting exchange with a vendor at THE Show 2015 regarding this topic. My spouse deliberately locates herself off-axis as this is often how she hears the music in our room. She likes systems/loudspeakers that sound good...off-axis.
One thousand subjective reviews are still subjective unless you can guarantee that no human being will ever give any other assessment. I have never seen such a thing. But sure, if you say that happens, we can make that exception.
When all systems are reviewed as "the best", no systems are the best. People can post what they want, that's what makes it interesting, after all its all subjective. At least that's what my years of musical training, experience recording/playing in studios, decades of music listening (critical and not) but non-expert ears tell me after 1/2 a century...
If we're talking experts, I'd wager most musicians fall somewhere at or near the top in my humble opinion..
If we're talking experts, I'd wager most musicians fall somewhere at or near the top in my humble opinion..
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I had an interesting exchange with a vendor at THE Show 2015 regarding this topic. My spouse deliberately locates herself off-axis as this is often how she hears the music in our room. She likes systems/loudspeakers that sound good...off-axis.
Dude, give up the sweet spot once and awhile!
Since there was 1.5 women there I probably saw you but didn't know who you were. I sat in a few rooms with couples in it. Actually more this year than in the past.
That being said, I agree with her, that is part of my process. I go into a room and just hang back and move around, find the nodes and watch guys fight over the SS. I sit in different seats and if so inclined move into the SS for a song or two. I think that it is very important to have an overall good sound.
I love to just sit and listen, but some times I have to get stuff done while I listen.
Firstly I thought the OP incredibly arrogant , patronising and condescending..
I went to a show to hear the Giya G1's , was not at all impressed , I was sitting 2nd row sweet spot..
Then I went to a pal of mine with G1's and after hearing the system in a treated room , went and bought a set.
I never rely on show sound or reports of show sound when purchasing.
I went to a show to hear the Giya G1's , was not at all impressed , I was sitting 2nd row sweet spot..
Then I went to a pal of mine with G1's and after hearing the system in a treated room , went and bought a set.
I never rely on show sound or reports of show sound when purchasing.
Peter has raised an interesting question whatever we agree or not.
I think that before all his exasperation is all about unsubstantiated comments. In other words, there is a difference between a bad demo and a bad equipment. Bad equipments, those which will reproduce a very poor performance in whatever context and circumstances, are now very few.
Then, in one hand, I can agree on the fact it's rather stupid or very unprofessional making a confusion between bad performance and bad equipment.
But on the other hand, you will meet in audio shows different exhibitors : some are competing for the best sound in show and their room is prepared for the demo, others are only there to be part of the event from a marketing standpoint. Then what may you think about the first group when they really play the competition game and their performance is quite ridiculous ? Did you never attend a very poor demo organized religiously by very condescending exhibitors ?
I believe it's quite fair expressing my own doubts about the demo but not specifically about the equipment. As it is fair making part of my enthusiasm for another good performance. Then it's all about sense of nuance.
This year in Munich, I attended at Hifi Deluxe the FM Acoustics demo. The double FM system delivered incredibly poor results beyond all expectations. Of course, there were bad circumstances but these bad conditions normally could have been addressed. I have hesitated before writing some words about this disappointing performance as we all know this equipment is able to sound very well. But I decided to express my thoughts and not to act as if this under-performance never existed... And I think all journalists should try to relate what they really perceived during the show, whether it is good or bad.
My two cents.
Joel.
I think that before all his exasperation is all about unsubstantiated comments. In other words, there is a difference between a bad demo and a bad equipment. Bad equipments, those which will reproduce a very poor performance in whatever context and circumstances, are now very few.
Then, in one hand, I can agree on the fact it's rather stupid or very unprofessional making a confusion between bad performance and bad equipment.
But on the other hand, you will meet in audio shows different exhibitors : some are competing for the best sound in show and their room is prepared for the demo, others are only there to be part of the event from a marketing standpoint. Then what may you think about the first group when they really play the competition game and their performance is quite ridiculous ? Did you never attend a very poor demo organized religiously by very condescending exhibitors ?
I believe it's quite fair expressing my own doubts about the demo but not specifically about the equipment. As it is fair making part of my enthusiasm for another good performance. Then it's all about sense of nuance.
This year in Munich, I attended at Hifi Deluxe the FM Acoustics demo. The double FM system delivered incredibly poor results beyond all expectations. Of course, there were bad circumstances but these bad conditions normally could have been addressed. I have hesitated before writing some words about this disappointing performance as we all know this equipment is able to sound very well. But I decided to express my thoughts and not to act as if this under-performance never existed... And I think all journalists should try to relate what they really perceived during the show, whether it is good or bad.
My two cents.
Joel.
MY issue is not that sound at shows can't be less than optimal. No doubt that happens. My whole issue with the OP is the sheer arrogance that you must be a reviewer at an audio magazine or video site to know good sound, that you must have the knowledge to properly understand, that years of listening to live music and equipment is not enough and that you have to be essentially taught by a reviewer how to properly listen to equipment as I was once told. Total BS IMHO. BTW, I listen to music, not equipment.
It's interesting because I hear better sound at shows than I do when going to brick and mortar stores. Now isn't that something. So yes you can hear 100's of systems under one roof good and bad. Even if show conditions are not great you still are evaluating if you like it or not. Most audio stores have terrible sound and yet we still seem to find what we like and buy. So I don't see anything wrong if we criticize a bad room just like a bad audio store. Lighten up everyone.
I read all posts and reviews with a grain of salt, both positive and negative. Often a very negative review exposes the writers bias and something of their personality. It sometimes also shows how little they know about audio. Clearly some people like to degrade companies and people they don't like in public forums. I do appreciate the effort that it takes to set up at a show. I think that effort should be respected. Most, if not all, companies have had good shows and bad. This doesn't mean their gear won't sound great in your place. Peter has a point - we should all show respect for the art and the effort these people make.
Now if we can just change the music they play at these shows to what I listen to - that would be something!
Now if we can just change the music they play at these shows to what I listen to - that would be something!
Sure, we should respect it. But that doesn't mean that art and effort cannot and should not improve, and that failures should not be criticized.
Again, we are tired of the excuses in this industry.
If there's one universal truth on forums internet-wide, it's that a thread that tries to shut people up will garner the most responses in the quickest time.
For me, if we're not here to discuss what we encounter in the world of audio, good and bad, then I don't see the point of an audio discussion forum.
For me, if we're not here to discuss what we encounter in the world of audio, good and bad, then I don't see the point of an audio discussion forum.
First of all Peter is not alone in this position. We need to remember that behind the rooms are people. They put themselves into their equipment and their companies and this is their livelihood. Mean spirited posts on public forums can be hurtful and damaging. Honest, thoughtful evaluation done with respect is fine. This thread is about something different than that. We are all in this together. Postive feedback for the good guys can bring us all forward.
"If I want your opinion I will give it to you" - Mark R. Levin
"If I want your opinion I will give it to you" - Mark R. Levin
Oh boy I have to tread on eggs now and have to like every room I go into. Are you kidding. This is so childish. Stores put their hear in soul in equipment they sell, but the sound still sucks and I have the right to say so whether its good or bad.
..but only if you are in the wheat basket. Seriously guys what exactly delineates a member of this nutty hobby as an expert? My hearing has been checked regularly over the 50 years I've been listening to music played through various pieces...everything from an Admiral clock radio to the system I own today, so that sense seems to be intact. I've attended several shows over years going back to the McCormick Place days and regularly sit in the sweet spot at my local dealer who, by the way handles all the big boy stuff. I don't fancy myself as an expert but I sure as heck feel qualified to express an opinion whether it be positive or even negative. Again, what exactly qualifies one to self proclaim to be an expert? Posting eqpt reviews on youtube? Waxing eloquent in an audio blog? If proclaiming ones self an expert would assure a steady stream of nosebleed audio eqpt thru my humble room, count me in!
I believe you need to be a Tier One Reviewer. I'm not sure where one takes that course and attains that designation.
as the adage goes, if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. too many excuses for shows.
in my show reports for the past 5 years posted right here on this forum, i've posted sounds that I disliked so I can let people know unsuccessful combinations to my ears. i find it being balanced. and btw, i was treated really poor in one of them this year- to the tune that the guy wouldn't play my LP unless he "liked it." I left that out to be nice lol.
in my show reports for the past 5 years posted right here on this forum, i've posted sounds that I disliked so I can let people know unsuccessful combinations to my ears. i find it being balanced. and btw, i was treated really poor in one of them this year- to the tune that the guy wouldn't play my LP unless he "liked it." I left that out to be nice lol.
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garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
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