Network Improvements and their Impact on Sound Quality

[rgmd11]

Sure, Pang. Here it is.

Hello/Ola Joao

My Edgerouter arrives today and I will be taking the same path as you and a good few others here.

Eu ja morei 16 anos em Salvador e ainda tem uma pequena apartamento veraneio em Joao Pessoa, agora estou morando em Lisboa (ja 12 anos), adoro Brasil, o povo, clima tropical, comida, "Tudo" kkkkk, Grande Abraço

 

[joaovieira]

Great! I Live in João Pessoa, and we are now on isolation in Camboinha beach, where we also have a beach appartment. Good to know you like and come often here.
I will be moving back to Fortaleza with my family this year. Because of this vírus I don’t know the date.
But if you come here before I move I will be glad to meet you and listen to some Music.

 

[rgmd11]

Great! I Live in João Pessoa, and we are now on isolation in Camboinha beach, where we also have a beach appartment. Good to know you like and come often here.
I will be moving back to Fortaleza with my family this year. Because of this vírus I don’t know the date.
But if you come here before I move I will be glad to meet you and listen to some Music.

Hi Joao,

Seriously !, you live in Joao Pessoa, what a coincidence, as I work in the Entertainment industry which is presently decimated, it will only be in 2021 when I can seriously think of getting back to work, when travel and flights get back to normal I will probably spend the upcoming winter in Joao Pessoa, and it would be fab to meet you and "uma boa converse sobre nossa paixão por som e music", Fica Ben.

 

[cat6man]

Hi cat6man,

When you say you "jumped straight to case 2", do you mean that case 2 is clearly better than case 1?

And in case 2, just to confirm, you have oM connected via copper to Extreme.

Cheers,

G

I jumped straight from my baseline, case 0 to case 2.
There is no oM in case 2. In the figures, yellow indicates optical connections, otherwise copper.
Also, there is no Extreme
My etherRegen feeds an opticalRendu running Jussi's NAA image, then on to my TotalDAC D1-direct.
etherRegen is across the moat (B to A) but when i finish the network stuff, i'll try going A to A (which Extreme users seem to prefer)

Note that going to case 2 I made at least 2 improvements at once, 1) i isolated the etherRegen from all the traffic on the 24 port switch and 2) i moved the music server off of the 24 port switch. if i moved the music server back onto the 24 port switch, i could isolate the two but i've got enough other excuses to keep running up/down to the basement making hardware changes without adding that one (at least for now).

I actually also have two options for adding the oM.
I've called them cases 2b (oM between the Fios router and edgerouterX, thereby adding galavanic isolation from the Fios router)
and case 2c (oM between Audio-Linux/HQP music server/NUC and edgerouterX, thereby adding galvanic isolation from the music server)


Updated figures below:

 

[Blackmorec]

This thread from Xymox contains so much valuable information about modems and routers that I thought it was well worth referencing it here in case you haven’t yet seen it

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/cable-modems.30094/

One important observation for anyone using a Modem based on the Puma (ugh) chip set is why regular network reboots are important and why they often result in an uptick in SQ.

Thanks Xymox for taking the time to post this comprehensive modem guide

 

[wil]

I threw myself into Edge Router Mania yesterday. It took my friend who is a computer/networking tech over an hour to get it functioning with my Att Gateway modem. Worked fine all day, then went out overnight. I've since bypassed the Edge.

I do wonder if it's worth all the trouble as I already have a pair or Sonore optical modules between modem and switch....

 

[Rhapsody]

I just received and inserted the Optimo 3 Duo PS for the Gold Switch. At less than half the cost of the Gold switch after 10 seconds you could tell that there is probably more improvement in the overall sound than even when the Gold switch was added with the small ps.

With the Optimo inserted now you are probably being allowed to hear what the Gold switch can really do, when powered appropriately.

I imagine it will take a bit to fully burn in, BUT right out of the UPS truck, it was like going from a 30 Watt set of good amps to 300 Watt amps......OOMPH!!!

I will update in a few days, but if the sound stays just like it is now, color me a "very happy camper".

I actually would say that it sounds like a night and day difference with and without the Optimo inserted into the system. I'm a bit stunned.



Bob

 

[Rhapsody]

I just received and inserted the Optimo 3 Duo PS for the Gold Switch. At less than half the cost of the Gold switch after 10 seconds you could tell that there is probably more improvement in the overall sound than even when the Gold switch was added with the small ps.

With the Optimo inserted now you are probably being allowed to hear what the Gold switch can really do, when powered appropriately.

I imagine it will take a bit to fully burn in, BUT right out of the UPS truck, it was like going from a 30 Watt set of good amps to 300 Watt amps......OOMPH!!!

I will update in a few days, but if the sound stays just like it is now, color me a "very happy camper".

I actually would say that it sounds like a night and day difference with and without the Optimo inserted into the system. I'm a bit stunned.



Bob

I am actually so stunned with the difference the Optimo makes in my system that I just ordered another one to plug in my Edge and Verizon routers to an Optimo.

I will then have the Verizon router/Edge router into one Optimo and two Gold Switches into another Optimo.

 

[Rhapsody]

After 24 hours of burn in with the Optimo PS added to the M12 Gold Switch-

Adding the Optimo to the Gold switch AND the Edge router produced bass that seems to go an octave lower. The low bass all the way up to the high mid bass seems to have doubled if not more in energy and dynamics.

The overall sonics are adding density to each note. This is an area that I have felt that cd's with a good transport bested streaming. I'm not sure now if there is much of a difference as the density of the notes on streaming has increased by quite a bit.

Just adding the M12 Gold Switch added more 3D to the sound bringing the soundstage further out in front and to the sides of the speakers which are 10' out into the room. I did not notice more of the 3D by adding the Optimo, it seems it was more about the density of the notes and the bass performance, which is a significant and noticeable difference.

 

[octaviars]

@Rhapsody are you playing internal files or streamingTidal/Qobuz?

 

[Blackmorec]

I am actually so stunned with the difference the Optimo makes in my system that I just ordered another one to plug in my Edge and Verizon routers to an Optimo.

I will then have the Verizon router/Edge router into one Optimo and two Gold Switches into another Optimo.

Ha ha! I had exactly the same reaction when I added a Sean Jacobs DC3 to my AQVox SE switch. Utterly transformed the sound, to the point I went on to order further supplies for the RE650 Network access point, Modem and Router. I haven’t been disappointed. What I get now (assuming its on the recording) is a very real sounding facsimile of the original recording venue . The more supplies I added, the more the recording venue took on an added presence and reality. At some point I’m going to stop upgrading and just enjoy what I have but I’m really curious to know what a Melco S100 and DC4 could do for the sound.....ha ha

 

[Rhapsody]

@Rhapsody are you playing internal files or streamingTidal/Qobuz?

Only streaming and 99% Qobuz. I have files on the Extreme, but I'm 100% streaming for my personal listening, which includes 6-8 hours of RadioSwissClassic from 6am until noon or early afternoon, then a break, and another 4-6 hours of various types of music.

One big difference in listening since installing the M12 Gold/Optimo PS is I don't think I have interrupted one album and sometimes let the album play half way through the second time. I can't get myself to switch to a different track or album.

 

[Rhapsody]

Ha ha! I had exactly the same reaction when I added a Sean Jacobs DC3 to my AQVox SE switch. Utterly transformed the sound, to the point I went on to order further supplies for the RE650 Network access point, Modem and Router. I haven’t been disappointed. What I get now (assuming its on the recording) is a very real sounding facsimile of the original recording venue . The more supplies I added, the more the recording venue took on an added presence and reality. At some point I’m going to stop upgrading and just enjoy what I have but I’m really curious to know what a Melco S100 and DC4 could do for the sound.....ha ha

YEP If I could just lock in for life to have the sound I have now, I could easily do so, BUT since I keep experiencing these sonics rushes by adding items to the network, "let it roll, baby, let it roll"

I have the second Optimo 3 Duo PS arriving early next week. I will connect that to the second M12 Gold switch which I will be inserting at the same time, along with feeding the Verizon router with the second output of the second Optimo PS.

 

[Rhapsody]

@Rhapsody are you playing internal files or streamingTidal/Qobuz?

BTW, I am NOT saying streaming sonically is superior to files, cds, vinyl or R2R. I have top quality cd, a Techdas AF1Premium, AF3, VYGER Atlantis and Studer R2R. If you play any of them they sonically would get the nod.

For my personal listening as long as the streaming sounds so good that I am stunned by the sound every time I listen and then enter the convenience and available music selection at my fingertip variables, then it's a no-brainer for me. I never have the desire to play any other format than streaming other than when I do demos.

My streaming also has a room encompassment attribute that exceeds all of the other formats. My room is totally saturated and I feel as I am in the middle of the soundstage vs looking at the soundstage. I don't experience this phenomenon to this degree with the other formats although they have other admirable attributes to their sonic presentations.

 

[octaviars]

Perhaps this is a question for Emile @Taiko Audio but does the Extreme buffer the whole song from Qobuz right after you hit play? I can see in my router that activety is high a couple of seconds on the port that feeds my etherRegen and then goes down to almost zero activity untill next song comes along.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Perhaps this is a question for Emile @Taiko Audio but does the Extreme buffer the whole song from Qobuz right after you hit play? I can see in my router that activety is high a couple of seconds on the port that feeds my etherRegen and then goes down to almost zero activity untill next song comes along.

Roon does that yes, so it’s not exclusive to the Extreme. You can also remove the network cable and listen to how it would sound with no network connected at all. You should, it may change your perspective

 

[Rhapsody]

One point that I should make is that I had a "bad network" (noisy and busy) set up and a several NOISY switching PSs in my networking set up. SO, the BIG UPTICKS in performance were surely more profound in my space vs. someone who has a clean and dedicated ethernet connection to their server.

I know Emile has a clean set up and I don't think he has experienced the same upticks that I have with the various switches and router additions and experiments.

 

[onsionsi]

I have the second Optimo 3 Duo PS arriving early next week. I will connect that to the second M12 Gold switch which I will be inserting at the same time, along with feeding the Verizon router with the second output of the second Optimo PS.

@Rhapsody why not adding the second M12 Gold Switch now by using it's SMPS and see if there's additional enhancement to your setup or not and then connecting Optimo 3 Duo PS when you will get it.

 

[cat6man]

After 24 hours of burn in with the Optimo PS added to the M12 Gold Switch-

Adding the Optimo to the Gold switch AND the Edge router produced bass that seems to go an octave lower. The low bass all the way up to the high mid bass seems to have doubled if not more in energy and dynamics.

The overall sonics are adding density to each note. This is an area that I have felt that cd's with a good transport bested streaming. I'm not sure now if there is much of a difference as the density of the notes on streaming has increased by quite a bit.

Just adding the M12 Gold Switch added more 3D to the sound bringing the soundstage further out in front and to the sides of the speakers which are 10' out into the room. I did not notice more of the 3D by adding the Optimo, it seems it was more about the density of the notes and the bass performance, which is a significant and noticeable difference.

you do realize that if you keep on this path, you'll have the musicians in your room with you and you'll be in violation of social distancing rules, particularly with big band and orchestral music

 

[Rhapsody]

@Rhapsody why not adding the second M12 Gold Switch now by using it's SMPS and see if there's additional enhancement to your setup or not and then connecting Optimo 3 Duo PS when you will get it.

I have more cables coming with the next Optimo and was thinking I need those cables. BUT I just looked and I have the net isolator that I just received the other day. You need the net isolator to connect the two M12/RJ45 cables that connect the two Gold switches together.

SO, Thx. I had what I needed but didn't think about it as I was in a trance with the sound.

I just connected the second switch with it's SMPS and connected the two Gold switches with the supplied M12/RF45 connectors with the net isolator in between.

Again, right away there is more solidity to the sound and it is VERY noticeable. The voices have more dimensionality although they were VERY dimensional with just the one switch, but more so now.

The density of the images on the soundstage became more solid.

It does the same thing as when I added the first switch just more of it. Not different just more solidity, lower and more controlled but very powerful mid bass and low bass. Greater dimensionality. Room encompassing, which it was doing prior, but now even more so.

I can tell now I will never remove the second switch. It's amazing with adding the switches or the Optimo you didn't have to break it in to immediately hear a significant difference. No need to go back and forth as with many system additives.

Although the Optimo addition sounded more refined after 24 hours. I am sure tomorrow it will even be better.

I need another room just to set up all of the switches, routers, cables

Thx again, I am so in the middle of the forest it's hard to see the trees