New Kronos review!
- Thread starter asiufy
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I can't imagine a more helpful review than this one. here is an owner of the reviewed tt as well as owner of two iconic competitors. he lived with this new one for 2 months.
and he very specifically described where he heard differences and why he preferred certain aspects.
for me; the only thing that could be better is if I knew the guy and had experience listening with him to have a personal insight into his approach. and I suppose if I read his reviews over an extended period I could get a better feel for that.
but otherwise; he did the work. no review can be much more than this.
as far as 'best'......he earned the right to make his personal call. many here have gone farther with much less. beyond that it's simply a data point. but a very helpful one. but no review is an ultimate truth. it's information in context.
Hi
Not an owner of a SOTA TT whatever that means. I was however told that the SP10Mk 2 that I own, can be brought to SOTA by using a different plinth, aka an audiophile-approved plinth .... The one I use is rather heroically build and designed by an absolutely non-audiophile mechanical friend with a PhD in Mechanical Engineering.
Anyway..
The word "pretender" is used in this post.. Just one example of a certain resistance, even defensive attitude toward the fact that this TT might actually be better than the current darlings. Why is that so? The more mundane price? The Origin? The reviewer? Why can't it be better than those darlings? How the AF came to be the SOTA it is right now in the mind of those who owns it? I do remember there was a thread about it here on the WBF and a few months later some acquired it. I am not sure they compared it in the same spot , in the same room with the same arms, cartridges and phono stage with other purported to be SOTA: most likely they heard it or heard about it in a setting whose overall sound they liked and decided to go for it .. Why can't it be the same for this TT?
P.S. Just read alsuify last post and it seems the same "SOTA" Vertere arm was used on both this Kronos and the AF)... The Kronos seems to have come on top ... according to this reviewer.
P.P.S Then I also read Mike Lavigne last post. Alex and Mike they both make extremely valid points. I believe there is a resistance to accept this TT as a serious competitor, a SOTA. It doesn't seem to be a "pretender" ... a derogatory term.
I always interpreted the forum name as a question - debating what's best. Perhaps we should nick it as WBF? ... It would please those who do not understand that there is no absolute best in stereo reproduction, just affirmations of quality with relative weights and statistical value.
I completely disagree on the need of comparing individual turntables with same arm and cartridge - unless you want just to study the compatibility between units. If you are comparing turntables, each of them should use an arm and cartridge that allows it to show its best qualities.
And yes, shootouts are useless. However, their are known to fuel debates in audio forums ...
I would strongly add that right now we have a member who, without taking the time and trouble to actually find the gear and listen, continually pronounces definitive judgments positive and negative, and claims simple ways to better said product, on all subjects regardless of his degree of experience. let's appreciate someone who is simply telling us what they heard when they lived with the gear.
I know which approach I value.....and which we could use more of.
Personally I wouldn't trust anything from Mono and stereo after reading their review on the Mola Mola Kaluga. It's clear that advertising dollars is how to get a positive review in that publication. But I'm not saying that in this particular case, the advertiser doesn't have a good product.
When I use the words "new pretender", nothing is to be read into them. It just seems that certain tt's get a perfect storm of reviews, show reports, owner testimonials, and ability to almost self promote based on historical provenance (revered designers) and second to none engineering credentials. The Rockport Sirius was once there, then Continuum Caliburn, then Clearaudio Statement, now the AF1 seems to "have it all".
A lot of bleeding edge/nr SOTA tt's have been released in the last few years to reasonably minimal exposure. Mike's NVS, Win's Sakia Ref 2. Both of which I'd like to hear, but absolutely zero chance in the UK. However, AF1, Dobbins Kodo The Beat, Kronos, GP Monaco 2 are available to hear.
And of course the l/t references that we've relied on to get to that special place, like SME20 and 30/12, TW Acustic AC3/Black Knight, Brinkmann Balance.
Too many others to mention. Special mention for all the heroically-modded Garrard 301's and Technics Sp1's and 2's out there.
So, just as the AF1 has supplanted the Continuum and to some extent Clearaudio Statement as the go-to final upgrade SOTA analog transducer, there seems to be a new confluence of excellent momentum behind the Kronos, esp this Pro Ltd edition.
A lot of bleeding edge/nr SOTA tt's have been released in the last few years to reasonably minimal exposure. Mike's NVS, Win's Sakia Ref 2. Both of which I'd like to hear, but absolutely zero chance in the UK. However, AF1, Dobbins Kodo The Beat, Kronos, GP Monaco 2 are available to hear.
And of course the l/t references that we've relied on to get to that special place, like SME20 and 30/12, TW Acustic AC3/Black Knight, Brinkmann Balance.
Too many others to mention. Special mention for all the heroically-modded Garrard 301's and Technics Sp1's and 2's out there.
So, just as the AF1 has supplanted the Continuum and to some extent Clearaudio Statement as the go-to final upgrade SOTA analog transducer, there seems to be a new confluence of excellent momentum behind the Kronos, esp this Pro Ltd edition.
I am not so sure as you. A good acquaintance has both in his system, we compared them. Although they sound different, I would not say the AF1 has supplanted the Continuum or vice-versa.
Micro, I'm making a more subtle point, that every few years in the tt world, one or a couple of tt's come thru that seem to have aspects that make it/them the "new pretenders". Is the Continuum really superior to the Sirius, and is the AF1 really superior to the Caliburn? Maybe. Maybe not. We'll never know. The Sirius and Continuum are not currently made. But the AF1 has been getting the kind of accolades that these other two used to get.
The GP Monaco was meant to be a game changer, and for a short period may have been the "go to" SOTA choice, but that moment was literally that as K. Kessler's "damning it w/faint praise" review did it's best to scupper it as a choice amongst a bigger number of the cognescenti.
All I'm saying is that dramatic review like this one will aid the Kronos in it's attempts to break thru to coveted status. But imho, the review should be taken w/a pinch of salt, and just an indicator, that if your budget can stretch to it, and you can indeed demo it, then you owe it to y'self to hear it. Good to have some alternative contenders in the "aspiring to SOTA" category.
For me, if the Kronos Pro Ltd really seems to reproduce the whole harmonic envelope of notes w/lower noise floor, this means that it has a major advantage in producing a truly holistic sound. That's a major plus point in my book. Whether it's better than the AF1 in this respect as the review seems to allude to, well...
The GP Monaco was meant to be a game changer, and for a short period may have been the "go to" SOTA choice, but that moment was literally that as K. Kessler's "damning it w/faint praise" review did it's best to scupper it as a choice amongst a bigger number of the cognescenti.
All I'm saying is that dramatic review like this one will aid the Kronos in it's attempts to break thru to coveted status. But imho, the review should be taken w/a pinch of salt, and just an indicator, that if your budget can stretch to it, and you can indeed demo it, then you owe it to y'self to hear it. Good to have some alternative contenders in the "aspiring to SOTA" category.
For me, if the Kronos Pro Ltd really seems to reproduce the whole harmonic envelope of notes w/lower noise floor, this means that it has a major advantage in producing a truly holistic sound. That's a major plus point in my book. Whether it's better than the AF1 in this respect as the review seems to allude to, well...
Not surprised with that rig you have there, MadFloyd. Actually lovely system btw.
Digital fans should have offered you a complete DCS Vivaldi system at Christmas time ...
Digital fans should have offered you a complete DCS Vivaldi system at Christmas time ...
I am hoping to hear dcs vivaldi 4 box vs techdas af1 with graham elite at the same system soon. That will be a phenomenal experience.
This is a race, that had a start (early 50s, whatever the SOTA was then), somewhat of a middle (Linn LP12/Technics SP10), and an end that actually never ends (Rockport Sirius, to Continuum Caliburn, to AF1, to this, to...Dave's American Sound??? Back to the future?).
I'm not surprised, but in Blizzard's digital thread he lists lots of qualifications about why MadFloyd's digital is still sub par including the wrong DAC and other stuff. Sorry I can't remember the details as it is all unfamiliar to me. I'm looking forward to hearing Ian's system again soon and also hearing his latest digital changes. The question for me is not which of his sources is more accurate to the recording based on measurements or particular claims, but which is preferable in terms of sound and which more closely resembles the sound of real instruments. I suppose the ultimate test is which source Ian spends more time listening to and enjoying and not claims about superiority from those who have not heard his system.
I have heard this Kronos in Ian's system and the non Pro Ltd version at a show a couple years ago in NYC using my arm and cartridge. It is an excellent turntable and I think the fact that it can be compared to turntables costing much more, is both refreshing and welcome in this hobby of ever increasing prices. It is a fitting addition to the system and appropriate in Ian's collection of first rate components.
Don't get me wrong, it's a good DAC, but digital technology moves fast and the Playback MPD-5 is a 7 year old DAC now. The USB-X interface is 5 years old as well. Technology with USB interfaces alone has gone through several levels of improvements over the last 5 years. So it's definitely not a fair comparison against the latest SOTA $100K analog rig.
However I do think the $4000 Merging Hapi or $11500 Merging NADAC combined with HQplayer and optical isolation has the potential to match or beat his analog rig.
It really has nothing to do with 'beating' there is no winner ,unless we look at technical specifications, some listeners just prefer analogue.
Keith
I'm talking about what he would prefer. This is because he can find the filter that suits his taste best with HQplayer. The only guy I know on this forum who has tried this is Andrew. And he has openly shared his results on the NADAC page.
The most vinyl like dac would be a NOS design with ,probably valve output stage, that would mimic some of the qualities of vinyl.
Keith
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