New Magico Speaker ??? 12-12-22

[owen lawlor]

Make sense!

Once your ears are tuned in to sealed enclosure bass, most other ported designs sound totally unhinged - fat, slow, and bloated. Sealed definitely makes set up easier and is a faster, tighter low end. I cannot tell you how many hours in a listening session I've spent moving big Wilsons a fraction of an inch to try and dial them in throughout a listening session only to never have it sound quite right. With Magicos you can just set them and forget them but if you experiment with placement, can move them out into your room, far apart and take the time to do so, you can wring magic out of them - BIG time.

 

[Whbgarrett]

Once your ears are tuned in to sealed enclosure bass, most other ported designs sound totally unhinged - fat, slow, and bloated. Sealed definitely makes set up easier and is a faster, tighter low end. I cannot tell you how many hours in a listening session I've spent moving big Wilsons a fraction of an inch to try and dial them in throughout a listening session only to never have it sound quite right. With Magicos you can just set them and forget them but if you experiment with placement, can move them out into your room, far apart and take the time to do so, you can wring magic out of them - BIG time.

^^This^^

 

[Ron Resnick]

My bet would be that Magico will not be building 100 DB efficient speakers to drive with low wattage tube amps. I personally don’t see any reason why they would do that. They have a charted their course and are doing quite well in the direction that they have chosen.

+1

 

[Gregadd]

I have no idea what the margin is on Magico speakers. Some have postulated that the industry standard is circa 40%.
There is a four-part factory tour on this forum detailing the extreme details of the manufacturing process. Youn cand find it here

 

[Rhapsody]

have no idea what the margin is on Magico margin. Some have postulated that the industry standard is circa 40%.

Just curious as to what you mean by this?

 

[Gregadd]

It seems pretty straightforward. If you are trying to guess their costs (including profit of course). Just calculate using the 40% markup. Of course, someone could tell me exactly what their margin is. I doubt that is going to happen.
After looking at the factory tour videos, I can see lots of test equipment and machining tools. It looks to be labor intensive. Nothing is left to chance. The high price seems justified.

 

[Rhapsody]

It seems pretty straightforward. If you are trying to guess their costs (including profit of course). Just calculate using the 40% markup. Of course, someone could tell me exactly what their margin is. I doubt that is going to happen.
After looking at the factory tour videos, I can see lots of test equipment and machining tools. It looks to be labor intensive. Nothing is left to chance. The high price seems justified.

The S3 is no different than any other Magico product. It costs X$ to manufacture the product and then those products are sold to dealers at a certain dealer cost. There is no difference with the S3, the M2, the A1, the M6, the A5 or the M9.

The cost to manufacture an S3 or any Magico speaker includes fixed costs - buildings/real estate, capital equipment, ie, CNC machines, measuring devices, test instrumentation, employees (salaries/insurance/training), production materials, shipping, advertising/trade shows, packaging, research and development, inventory costs, including spare parts for warranty repairs, interest on long term debt.

You also have variable costs which change over time and are tied to if a product is massed produced (A series) or is it a limited produced product M9. All of these costs and expense are associated with any manufactured product for Magico or any other manufacturer of any product.

If you try to "guess" what a product costs to manufacture, market and sell that's a fun exercise.

In reality there are hard documented spreadsheets filled with every small detail, (down to the penny), of each area mentioned above that determines how a product is priced, marketed, sold and supported.

 

[CKKeung]

The S3 is no different than any other Magico product. It costs X$ to manufacture the product and then those products are sold to dealers at a certain dealer cost. There is no difference with the S3, the M2, the A1, the M6, the A5 or the M9.

The cost to manufacture an S3 or any Magico speaker includes fixed costs - buildings/real estate, capital equipment, ie, CNC machines, measuring devices, test instrumentation, employees (salaries/insurance/training), production materials, shipping, advertising/trade shows, packaging, research and development, inventory costs, including spare parts for warranty repairs, interest on long term debt.

You also have variable costs which change over time and are tied to if a product is massed produced (A series) or is it a limited produced product M9. All of these costs and expense are associated with any manufactured product for Magico or any other manufacturer of any product.

If you try to "guess" what a product costs to manufacture, market and sell that's a fun exercise.

In reality there are hard documented spreadsheets filled with every small detail, (down to the penny), of each area mentioned above that determines how a product is priced, marketed, sold and supported.

The list is long and very real.
The design/construction of the S3 2023 is totally new and different from all the current and old Magico models, except only its midrange driver & tweeter.
I must give Alon a big applause, for his everlasting strong passion & energy to break new ground & strike for excellence.

 

[HenryD]

Just comparing the old Q5 or Q3 prices to the new S3, one can argue that Magico's value proposition is consistently increasing. I am looking forward to hearing the new S3.

 

[Rhapsody]

Talk about value - customers are going to get a WHOLE LOT of the sonic performance of the almost twice the cost M2/M3s with the new S3. Then you get a WHOLE LOT of the sonics with what you will get from the S3 with the A5s, again at half the cost of the S3s.

For those that are interested in Magico speakers the value proposition and the sonic performance has never been better. imho.

 

[CKKeung]

Agree, and the new graphene-sandwiched honeycomb aluminium woofer is a big surprise!
I expected that new models of Magico will have the M9/A5's new midrange driver only.

 

[Rhapsody]

Agree, and the new graphene-sandwiched honeycomb aluminium woofer is a big surprise!
I expected that new models of Magico will have the M9/A5's new midrange driver only.

As well as the new tweeter that is similar to the M series tweeter but with even a new motor system which was developed for the new S3. I did not anticipate that either.

 

[godofwealth]

I did a demo this afternoon for the A5s using the VAC 170 IQ integrated amp at 80 watts. Way more than enough power. From my experience 50 watts push poll does the trick.

My bet would be that Magico will not be building 100 DB efficient speakers to drive with low wattage tube amps. I personally don’t see any reason why they would do that. They have a charted their course and are doing quite well in the direction that they have chosen.

One unfortunate direction that a lot of high end speaker manufacturers have taken is building relatively low efficiency loudspeakers. This is great news for amplifier manufacturers who tout their 1000 watt low distortion solid state boat anchor size of their brands. Unfortunately, in audio, like elsewhere, the tail wags the dog. If your loudspeaker efficiency is low (meaning mid 80s to low 90s), distortion gets very high. Even the best pro JBL designs have unacceptable levels of harmonic distortion. Meaning the speakers can barely resolve 10 bits in the bass with distortion around -45 dB at 96 dB (check out the distortion curves in ASR). What’s the point of 24-bit recordings if your speaker cannot resolve even 16 bits of information?

What I’d really like to see is manufacturers like Magico showing the distortion performance of their loudspeakers. As Paul Klipsch proved 70 odd years ago, there’s really only one way to build low distortion loudspeakers that can recreate the dynamics of a live orchestra or jazz band, which is to make them highly efficient. Horn loading is the best way to couple the very high mass of a speaker cone with the very low mass of the surrounding air. No matter how many millions of dollars Magico throws at this problem, it can’t change the underlying physics of sound. The other solution is Peter Walker’s electrostatic, which are very low distortion, but can’t get very loud.

I don’t know any other way to design low distortion loudspeakers other than these. Of course, manufacturers would not like talk about distortion. They’d rather talk about graphene drivers, aluminum cabinets, diamond tweeters etc. Show me the money! Where are your distortion curves?

 

[Rhapsody]

One unfortunate direction that a lot of high end speaker manufacturers have taken is building relatively low efficiency loudspeakers. This is great news for amplifier manufacturers who tout their 1000 watt low distortion solid state boat anchor size of their brands. Unfortunately, in audio, like elsewhere, the tail wags the dog. If your loudspeaker efficiency is low (meaning mid 80s to low 90s), distortion gets very high. Even the best pro JBL designs have unacceptable levels of harmonic distortion. Meaning the speakers can barely resolve 10 bits in the bass with distortion around -45 dB at 96 dB (check out the distortion curves in ASR). What’s the point of 24-bit recordings if your speaker cannot resolve even 16 bits of information?

What I’d really like to see is manufacturers like Magico showing the distortion performance of their loudspeakers. As Paul Klipsch proved 70 odd years ago, there’s really only one way to build low distortion loudspeakers that can recreate the dynamics of a live orchestra or jazz band, which is to make them highly efficient. Horn loading is the best way to couple the very high mass of a speaker cone with the very low mass of the surrounding air. No matter how many millions of dollars Magico throws at this problem, it can’t change the underlying physics of sound. The other solution is Peter Walker’s electrostatic, which are very low distortion, but can’t get very loud.

I don’t know any other way to design low distortion loudspeakers other than these. Of course, manufacturers would not like talk about distortion. They’d rather talk about graphene drivers, aluminum cabinets, diamond tweeters etc. Show me the money! Where are your distortion curves?

As I said it's a great moment in time for those that are interested in Magico speakers, which there are hundreds of these customers around the globe.

For those that are interested in other avenues or wish Magico would be something other than it is, we wish them all the best in their pursuits.

 

[CKKeung]

One doesn't have to be strictly single-minded.
I consider myself quite embracing diversity.

I visited a friend several weeks ago. He rents an unit in an industrial building for his gigantic vintage Western Electric horns. The amps are vintage WE tube amps as well.



The LP system is really very special : a RCA direct drive for studio use.



I like his system very much!
But I guess the measurements must be very horrible.

 

[Rhapsody]

One doesn't have to be strictly single-minded.
I consider myself quite embracing diversity.

I visited a friend several weeks ago. He rents an unit in an industrial building for his gigantic vintage Western Electric horns. The amps are vintage WE tube amps as well.

View attachment 101658

The LP system is really very special : a RCA direct drive for studio use.

View attachment 101659

I like his system very much!
But I guess the measurements must be very horrible.

I love that system. Very cool.

 

[bonzo75]

One doesn't have to be strictly single-minded.
I consider myself quite embracing diversity.

I visited a friend several weeks ago. He rents an unit in an industrial building for his gigantic vintage Western Electric horns. The amps are vintage WE tube amps as well.

View attachment 101658

The LP system is really very special : a RCA direct drive for studio use.

View attachment 101659

I like his system very much!
But I guess the measurements must be very horrible.

the speakers look like the mirrorphonic

 

[Rhapsody]

One doesn't have to be strictly single-minded.
I consider myself quite embracing diversity.

I visited a friend several weeks ago. He rents an unit in an industrial building for his gigantic vintage Western Electric horns. The amps are vintage WE tube amps as well.

View attachment 101658

The LP system is really very special : a RCA direct drive for studio use.

View attachment 101659

I like his system very much!
But I guess the measurements must be very horrible.

CK, Please tell your friend that I ADMIRE him for renting an industrial space so that he could fit this dream system in it to enjoy it. Very special.

 

[Audire]

One unfortunate direction that a lot of high end speaker manufacturers have taken is building relatively low efficiency loudspeakers. This is great news for amplifier manufacturers who tout their 1000 watt low distortion solid state boat anchor size of their brands. Unfortunately, in audio, like elsewhere, the tail wags the dog. If your loudspeaker efficiency is low (meaning mid 80s to low 90s), distortion gets very high. Even the best pro JBL designs have unacceptable levels of harmonic distortion. Meaning the speakers can barely resolve 10 bits in the bass with distortion around -45 dB at 96 dB (check out the distortion curves in ASR). What’s the point of 24-bit recordings if your speaker cannot resolve even 16 bits of information?

What I’d really like to see is manufacturers like Magico showing the distortion performance of their loudspeakers. As Paul Klipsch proved 70 odd years ago, there’s really only one way to build low distortion loudspeakers that can recreate the dynamics of a live orchestra or jazz band, which is to make them highly efficient. Horn loading is the best way to couple the very high mass of a speaker cone with the very low mass of the surrounding air. No matter how many millions of dollars Magico throws at this problem, it can’t change the underlying physics of sound. The other solution is Peter Walker’s electrostatic, which are very low distortion, but can’t get very loud.

I don’t know any other way to design low distortion loudspeakers other than these. Of course, manufacturers would not like talk about distortion. They’d rather talk about graphene drivers, aluminum cabinets, diamond tweeters etc. Show me the money! Where are your distortion curves?

Just a thought, but If I were Magico, I’d be manufacturing my own Amps and Pres to drive Magico speakers - and others of course as well. I’m sure if Magico ever did this it will be top notch. They are already some of the best made and sounding speakers in the entire world. Imagine a perfectly matched amp to the mixture … Only draw back is that they’d probably be orange.

 

[cjf]

Boy am I glad I bought my S3's back in the day when they were in MkI form. I'm still very happy with them today but it was a bit of a bumpy ride to get here (took awhile to understand what their pet peeves are, Class D gives them diarrhea).

In any case, given today's prices, I would be SOL if I ever had to sell them for some reason. I would be very surprised to find a similar priced speaker (in todays money) as the MkI at the time that can do what they do (If that makes sense).

The new S3 looks very impressive. I'll just have to keep playing that lottery I guess.