New MSB Cascade DAC

[Mike Lavigne]

My posts here were a critic about the sound of MSB Cascade DAC. I tried to show what I hear with evidences (videos).

most here will not even listen to a video claiming to prove a negative. but a few might.

There is no other way to show what we hear.

just state your opinion. it seems like you view video's as some sort of proof/evidence. it's simply not proof. period. so if that is all you have. you have nothing.....in my opinion.

And I thought it makes a good sense.

nope. although i do respect that you probably have good intensions. and our reactions are not personal, just to what your post claimed.

I see more respect members have different opinions. I know the argument doesn't solve anything. I am done with this thread.

before i disagreed with you, i respectfully asked a question to make sure i understood what you were claiming. you could have softened your position; but instead you doubled down. also; you decided to criticize a well respected product. i assume you were aware of that so were prepared for a reaction. that was your choice. and you are a manufacturer so more discretion is expected from you, and the bar is higher.

different opinions here are normal. expected even. i hope you tell us your opinions. and of course, not everyone agrees with me on the value of a video. but none claim it is any ultimate truth.

 

[Lee]

Perhaps the server and server to dac interface is more important to sound quality than the contribution of the dac itself.

From what I understand the dac supplied with the Olympus server is nothing special, but when used with the Olympus server and the Xdmi interface the results are significantly better than using usb to a sota dac. And using Xdmi natively with a sota dac will be that much better.

Like Wadax, Taiko seems to be largely focused on power supply (battery) and server to dac interface.

I'm a bit skeptical of the idea that having reference quality streaming/server trumps the performance of a reference DAC. At these price levels I would think you would want both. The quality of conversion matters a lot.

It will be interesting to see the dCS response to the new MSB and Wadax.

 

[Lee]

agree with Al. owned the MSB Select II for 4 years. heard it a dozen times at shows, paid close attention when i was auditioning it. never glare or veiling unless the recording had it. it did not obscure recording truth. added no tonal coloration.

Based on my listening to the Select 2 at Hugh's house, I also have not heard any "glare" or "veil".

 

[marty]

I think videos are complete waste of time for the many reasons mentioned. But if they are terrible purveyors of any sort of musical truth, why are they so popular and in demand? The answer is simple as I see it. It's a combination of human nature and pure titillation. The definition of titillation is the act of intentionally making someone slightly excited, usually with sexual images or descriptions. In the old days, the mainstay of sexual titillation was stationary images from magazines such as Playboy and Penthouse. Now, its unlimited video porniography. Well, the same escalation has occurred in our hobby. It used to be a nice photo of new, often expensive piece of gear could stir the passions. Now it's a video post. As unsatisfying as it is to many of us for any useful purpose, it brings many admirers one step closer to the mindset of "wow, this is what I want my stereo to be, or aspire to be". There's noting wrong with that. But let's be realistic. Videos of audio systems bring a "real" experience about as close to you as a Playboy centerfold, or the modern equivalent, which is X-rated pornography. Instead of incessant babel over this topic, why not just live and let be? From Robert Hunter's "Box of Rain" (Grateful Dead, American Beauty, 1970):
"Believe it if you need it
If you don't, just pass it on".

Enough is enough already. I'm never going to convince you it's a fool's errand, and you're never going to convince me it has any useful value as an evaluation tool. They're easy to ignore and also easy to watch if you wish. Just stop wasting my time with the incessant arguments pro and con that have no satisfying universal answer.

Sorry to divert the MSB thread but this topic is on almost every thread and I'm just bored seeing it over and over like Groundhog Day.

 

[davetheoilguy]

This is probably a dumb question but is the cascade dual mono? That is, completely separate parallel architecture once sent to the DAC portion and on to the analog?

 

[Kingrex]

before i disagreed with you, i respectfully asked a question to make sure i understood what you were claiming. you could have softened your position; but instead you doubled down. also; you decided to criticize a well respected product. i assume you were aware of that so were prepared for a reaction. that was your choice. and you are a manufacturer so more discretion is expected from you, and the bar is higher.

I didn't realize Wavetouch was a manufacturer. Maybe it makes sense now. I run into audio sales people all the time that out of the gate bash and tear up anything they can. Then tell you your a fool for listening to anyone but them. Now, buy their stuff.

 

[itay123]

System videos are destroying the high end.

​

"Video Killed The Radio Star"​

 

[wil]

I'm a bit skeptical of the idea that having reference quality streaming/server trumps the performance of a reference DAC. At these price levels I would think you would want both. The quality of conversion matters a lot.

In coming weeks there will be many reports from Taiko users migrating to the Olympus server with dac card and xdmi interface. It will be an easy compare between the Taiko dac card with xdmi and various high end dacs with usb.

If the user reports are similar to what Taiko is saying, it will indicate the xdmi interface creates a greater sq delta than the best uber dacs (when using usb). And it is expected that dacs with native xdmi implemented will be better still.

It will be interesting hear reports from Munich as I imagine it might be possible to hear comparisons between:

— Olympus > usb > Lampi Poseidon dac
— Olympus > xdmi > Taiko dac card
— Olympus > xdmi > Lampi Poseidon dac

 

[matthias]

It will be interesting hear reports from Munich as I imagine it might be possible to hear comparisons between:

— Olympus > usb > Lampi Poseidon dac
— Olympus > xdmi > Taiko dac card
— Olympus > xdmi > Lampi Poseidon dac

The second and third for sure, I don't know about the first. @Aries Cerat have the Olympus in their room but I don't know if they go via USB or XDMI(AES or SPDIF) output. I would bet they use XDMI.

 

[Kingrex]

Who uses XDMI?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Who uses XDMI?

it's a new Taiko-only interface. OEM dac manufacturers can implement the interface in their dacs for optimal use with the new Taiko Olympus. read page 5. so far i have read about (but not seen) Aries Cerat and Lamplizator having implemented it. others are working on it.

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Olympus-and-Olympus-IO-Introduction-FAQ_v026.x80569.pdf

 

[Taiko Audio]

wonder if it will have the Taiko Olympus interface as a module option? and i don't see any MSB server/Roon/files option. so it's a dac only. this appears to be a Select II replacement, not a 'mid-model'. but maybe others have more insight into that? Sentinel?

it would seem like the Taiko interface would be essential. that's a big group of current MSB owners. maybe the Sentinel level will offer that?

We are working on a module which will provide a direct MSB PRO ISL fiber interface. For joint MSB/Taiko customers this means they can bypass/eliminate their MSB Pro USB adapter and USB cable and/or MSB Network Renderer V2 module if they so desire.

 

[itay123]

A Direct MSB Pro ISL fiber interface is definitely better than various adapters.
I Believe when the aforementioned module will be relevant at Taiko Audio it will definitely interest me to move there, if and when.

good luck!

 

[Taiko Audio]

Agree. Everyone has been working around USB for over a decade. It is time for a real interface. I think the Wadax optical is state of the art. I don't see what is stopping others from adopting an optical interface between server and DAC.

The "working around USB for a decade" remark is quite fitting imho But there's also a versatility benefit to USB being you have options where / when you do your USB to I2S conversion, this however adds to the "messy" appearance.

Most commonly the USB to I2S conversion is performed inside the DAC. MSB offers this as the MSB USB input module. But indeed it's generally accepted that their external MSB Pro USB solution, which moves the USB to I2S conversion to an external adapter, and then transports I2S over an optical link to the DAC, is the superior solution.

This is actually more similar then different to what Wadax offers, both perform their USB to I2S conversion externally from their DACs. But obviously Wadax can place their XMOS module inside their server and go direct I2S over optical out, where MSB needs to rely on that external module for compatibility as they don't manufacture their own server based sources (yet?).

 

[Taiko Audio]

The second and third for sure, I don't know about the first. @Aries Cerat have the Olympus in their room but I don't know if they go via USB or XDMI(AES or SPDIF) output. I would bet they use XDMI.

As this thread is about the MSB Cascade DAC I will answer this question in the relevant thread here:

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/introducing-olympus-olympus-i-o-a-new-perspective-on-modern-music-playback.37939/page-85

 

[GHasley]

My posts here were a critic about the sound of MSB Cascade DAC. I tried to show what I hear with evidences (videos). There is no other way to show what we hear. And I thought it makes a good sense.

I see more respect members have different opinions. I know the argument doesn't solve anything. I am done with this thread.

Since neither you nor anyone else has heard the Cascade, then your posts are misleading, disingenuous and intended merely to create/keep brand awareness and get your name out there for a business reason.

I’ll be as kind as I can be with the fiollowing comment: I heard your speakers at the Southern California Audio Show (in Anaheim IIRC) a few years back…maybe 2014 or 2015. You were driving them with a big box integrated hidden under a skirted table. I appreciated that you went to the effort to invest in a room to try to carve out your niche. Your marketing niche isn’t with the typical person frequenting this site. It’s akin to opening a Kosher deli in Tehran. No amount of iphone videos of iphone videos will change that.

Consider Investing your time and efforts more wisely, where it might yield you something positive…perhaps in a forum where Sonos is held up as a standard.

 

[Lee]

We are working on a module which will provide a direct MSB PRO ISL fiber interface. For joint MSB/Taiko customers this means they can bypass/eliminate their MSB Pro USB adapter and USB cable and/or MSB Network Renderer V2 module if they so desire.

Are you doing anything for dCS owners as well?

 

[Kingrex]

The "working around USB for a decade" remark is quite fitting imho But there's also a versatility benefit to USB being you have options where / when you do your USB to I2S conversion, this however adds to the "messy" appearance.

Most commonly the USB to I2S conversion is performed inside the DAC. MSB offers this as the MSB USB input module. But indeed it's generally accepted that their external MSB Pro USB solution, which moves the USB to I2S conversion to an external adapter, and then transports I2S over an optical link to the DAC, is the superior solution.

This is actually more similar then different to what Wadax offers, both perform their USB to I2S conversion externally from their DACs. But obviously Wadax can place their XMOS module inside their server and go direct I2S over optical out, where MSB needs to rely on that external module for compatibility as they don't manufacture their own server based sources (yet?).

A lot of DAC use a JCat USB card. Do you have an option for that? Maybe those DAC are lower cost than what a Taiko owner would purchase. Either way, if you parented the output and input cards, you could impact the industry as a manufacturer for other companies to use the technology.

 

[gds7368]

We are working on a module which will provide a direct MSB PRO ISL fiber interface. For joint MSB/Taiko customers this means they can bypass/eliminate their MSB Pro USB adapter and USB cable and/or MSB Network Renderer V2 module if they so desire.

Great news! If I am using the new direct MSB PRO ISL fiber interface ... should I get the XDMI interface option on the Olympus?

 

[Ron Resnick]

My posts here were a critic about the sound of MSB Cascade DAC. I tried to show what I hear with evidences (videos).

But this simply isn't true, because you have not heard "the sound of MSB Cascade DAC."

In my personal opinion your posts are intellectually dishonest, trolling and unfair.