New Q3/mini M-Pro?

[ack]

It will do him good!

Wow, what a beautiful offering, and the size is just right... Still above my means, but I expected that. Heavier then a Q3, so I was right, no SP review here

For one thing, it's WELL BELOW $100K as I hoping for, yesterday. For another, it's well above the $50K price I was jokingly hoping for, earlier today. For yet another, it feels like a better performer than the Q5 for less money, so Magico has delivered again, but we do need to listen first and verify, before we get carried away. Finally, I am sure I will not be willing to pay more than $60K for it, even if that - that's 20% off alright, if not better. I am also willing to buy it sight unseen, if the price is right.

 

[cannata]

For one thing, it's WELL BELOW $100K as I hoping for, yesterday. For another, it's well above the $50K price I was jokingly hoping for, earlier today. For yet another, it feels like a better performer than the Q5 for less money, so Magico has delivered again, but we do need to listen first and verify, before we get carried away. Finally, I am sure I will not be willing to pay more than $60K for it, even if that - that's 20% off alright, if not better. I am also willing to buy it sight unseen, if the price is right.

Man, I am glad I do not need to sell you anything, no wounder the dealers are going under
Live and let live Or a used Q3

 

[ack]

+1, my "pricing is crazy in high end" friend, Frantz.

and I remember everyone a year ago saying to buy 60k S7s as they were a small M-Pro. Now that speaker is suddenly inferior.

You have a point. BTW, I was the only one from the Boston group that didn't like the S7 for the price, and now I like it even less.

 

[Al M.]

You have a point. BTW, I was the only one from the Boston group that didn't like the S7 for the price, and now I like it even less.

Not true. I thought the S7 was good for what it is but I have been critical from day one. Too much vibrating of the chassis when you put you hands on it, for starters. Just for that I would never have considered buying them, even if I had the money. My own current speakers vibrate much less, and cost 1/20 of the price.

The chassis vibrations are also the reason why I would never have called the S7 a small M-Pro. The latter is in an entirely different league. If the new M3 vibrate much less, then I might be able to call these a small M-Pro if their sound quality deserves it.

Yes, I was very positive about the S7 audition at Goodwin's but primarily not because of the S7 but, if you remember Ack, mainly because of the performance of the dCS Vivaldi stack!

 

[KeithR]

I would certainly not purchase S7s now, so I'm with you guys Ack and Al. And I think 15k at that price level isn't a big deal for that kind of wealthy buyer.

 

[ack]

Don't know Al... I believe you've posted some very positive comments about that demo, and consequently the speaker. I am the only one who abstained, but said what I had to say in private. Here's PeterA speaking on who liked it and who didn't in this post and I get the impression the email exchanges we've had painted the same picture:

Mobiusman, could you share with us your impressions of the Magico S7 speaker? I recently heard it at Goodwins with my group of Boston area audio buddies and three of the four of us really liked it. I think we heard it in a similar system to what you heard: Latest Sprectral monos and pre, dCS Vivaldi stack, Top MIT cabling and the S7/Ssub combination. Did you get an impression of the speaker apart from your observations about the electronics?

 

[Al M.]

Don't know Al... I believe you've posted some very positive comments about that demo, and consequently the speaker.

Ack, I said what I said:

Yes, I was very positive about the S7 audition at Goodwin's but primarily not because of the S7 but, if you remember Ack, mainly because of the performance of the dCS Vivaldi stack!

And you should go through the email exchanges of our group. From day one I have been critical about the vibrations.

 

[wgerman]

M3
Driver Complement
• 1 1” MBD28 Tweeter
• 1 6” MAG6004RTC Graphene Nano-Tec Midrange
• 3 7” MAG7012RTC Graphene Nano-Tec Bass

Specifications
• Sensitivity: 91dB
• Impedance: 4 Ohms
• Frequency Response: 24 Hz – 50 KHz
• Recommended Power: 20 – 500 Watts
• Dimensions 48”H x 19”D x 13”W (120cm x 49cm x 34cm)
• Weight: 320 lbs. (145Kg)

SRP US $ 75,000.00 /pair
Ship date – 3rd Quarter 2016

Q3

Driver Complement:
1 x 1" (2.54cm) Tweeter
1 x 6" (15.24cm) Midrange
3 x 7” (17.78cm) Bass

Sensitivity: 90dB

Impedance: 4 Ohms


Frequency Response:
26 Hz - 50 kHz

Recommended Power:
30 watts

Dimensions:
47"H x 16"D x 10.5"W
(119.38cm x 41.64cm x 26.67cm)

Weight: 250 lbs. (113 kg)
Shipping Weight: 600 lbs. (272 kg)

 

[cannata]

Not true. I thought the S7 was good for what it is but I have been critical from day one. Too much vibrating of the chassis when you put you hands on it, for starters. Just for that I would never have considered buying them, even if I had the money. My own current speakers vibrate much less, and cost 1/20 of the price.

The chassis vibrations are also the reason why I would never have called the S7 a small M-Pro. The latter is in an entirely different league. If the new M3 vibrate much less, then I might be able to call these a small M-Pro if their sound quality deserves it.

Yes, I was very positive about the S7 audition at Goodwin's but primarily not because of the S7 but, if you remember Ack, mainly because of the performance of the dCS Vivaldi stack!

You have a mini monitor, a 5”-6” woofer that hardly moves with a port or a radiator in it, probably don’t have much output below 80 Hz, and you compare it to a full range sealed enclosure, with 3 huge 10” woofers each with a huge X-Max?? Can you even imaging the pressure that the box needs to contain? There is no way for a stiff sealed box not to vibrate, the question is what to do and how to dissipate these vibrations away from the front panel. The S5 sides vibrate as well, but to no effect on performance whatsoever, and the face plate is completely inert. I am sure the S7 is the same.

 

[Frank750]

Seems to me that I would have difficulty bellying up to the bar for a pair of Magico speakers. Their "state of the art" appears to be moving at breakneck speeds. I'm all for furthering technology but they don't just do updates, they do overhauls.

Great for someone just getting in but if I was spending $50k-$200k for speakers, I would hate to be reading about new driver technology or new cabinet breakthroughs less than a year after I've forked over my money. And hasn't this happened multiple times over the last couple of years?

Am I off base here?

 

[Al M.]

You have a mini monitor, a 5”-6” woofer that hardly moves with a port or a radiator in it, probably don’t have much output below 80 Hz, and you compare it to a full range sealed enclosure, with 3 huge 10” woofers each with a huge X-Max?? Can you even imaging the pressure that the box needs to contain? There is no way for a stiff sealed box not to vibrate, the question is what to do and how to dissipate these vibrations away from the front panel.

Precisely my point. As I said before on this thread, a monitor/sub combo offers almost only advantages over floorstanders, except for a very large room where you must have large speakers. This is one of the reasons. Of course, if you put down the money on something like an M Pro or the new M3, you don't have this particular problem. If I'd go large speaker (which I won't) then I want to have at least that kind of quality with regard to lack of vibrations.

The S5 sides vibrate as well, but to no effect on performance whatsoever, and the face plate is completely inert. I am sure the S7 is the same.

It is debatable if there are conditions under which cabinet vibrations have no influence on speaker performance. If what you say were correct, then there would be no reason for Magico to go to the great lengths they do in eliminating vibrations in their top models.

 

[Elberoth]

Calk or some sort of rubber solution could make for a hermetic seal. In the picture you showed, I counted 6-7 holes in the horizontal plate and there may be more from another vantage point. The new chamber could also offer ideal volume behind the midrange and the tapered nature of it seems to want to avoid parallel surfaces, unlike the original which seems to span the entire upper part and is also boxy, with a vertical partial divider plate (right behind the midrange) that I don't understand its use offhand (but could be just for structural support). I have no doubt the new design is superior.

The midrange driver IS a hermeticly sealed - just like in any other hi-end speaker. What you see is just a cutout, without cables, dampening material etc., to show the speaker internal build.

The only difference between the M3 and Q3 is the SHAPE of the midrange chamber. The one in the Q3 is rectangular, and the one in M3 (S3/5mk2/S7) is elliptical. For this reason, the later is made of polymer, not aluminium (it would be very difficoult/costly to make one of aluminium).

 

[PeterA]

You have a point. BTW, I was the only one from the Boston group that didn't like the S7 for the price, and now I like it even less.

I'm part of the Boston Group, I guess, and I wrote on this forum that I actually prefer the Q1 to the S7, for much less money. I thought the S7 sounded pretty good, but criticized the vibrations and like the Q series much better for the type of music I listen to and for the aesthetics. I don't think I ever mentioned price as a factor, one way or the other. But, at the time, it was half the price of the M Pro which is no longer available.

I still think a used Q3 would be a great value on the used market.

 

[PeterA]

You have a mini monitor, a 5”-6” woofer that hardly moves with a port or a radiator in it, probably don’t have much output below 80 Hz, and you compare it to a full range sealed enclosure, with 3 huge 10” woofers each with a huge X-Max?? Can you even imaging the pressure that the box needs to contain? There is no way for a stiff sealed box not to vibrate, the question is what to do and how to dissipate these vibrations away from the front panel. The S5 sides vibrate as well, but to no effect on performance whatsoever, and the face plate is completely inert. I am sure the S7 is the same.

Actually, the M Pro, Q5 and Q7 are large stiff sealed boxes and they do not vibrate, or it is barely noticeable when really stressed. The S7 vibrated a lot during the demo and is built to a completely different standard. I agree with Al. His statement is in an absolute sense, not in comparison to his monitors.

 

[PeterA]

The midrange driver IS a hermeticly sealed - just like in any other hi-end speaker. What you see is just a cutout, without cables, dampening material etc., to show the speaker internal build.

The only difference between the M3 and Q3 is the SHAPE of the midrange chamber. The one in the Q3 is rectangular, and the one in M3 (S3/5mk2/S7) is elliptical. For this reason, the later is made of polymer, not aluminium (it would be very difficoult/costly to make one of aluminium).

Actually, the shape is different and also the material and size. The Q3 driver enclosure is not rectangular. the sides are flat but the bottom surface tilts up, so the top and bottom are not parallel, thus further breaking up standing waves.

 

[CKKeung]

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/04/magico-m3-speakers-new.html#more

Although the M3 has new/improved drivers of similar sizes as those in Q3, its enclosure size is much bigger.
Much deeper, and due to the curved sidewalls, much wider too.
It actually has the size of Q5.

 

[PeterA]

Seems to me that I would have difficulty bellying up to the bar for a pair of Magico speakers. Their "state of the art" appears to be moving at breakneck speeds. I'm all for furthering technology but they don't just do updates, they do overhauls.

Great for someone just getting in but if I was spending $50k-$200k for speakers, I would hate to be reading about new driver technology or new cabinet breakthroughs less than a year after I've forked over my money. And hasn't this happened multiple times over the last couple of years?

Am I off base here?

I don't think you are off bass for bringing this up, Frank. It has been discussed before by Jon Valin and others. Should Magico not utilize their latest ideas in new speaker designs if they think they improve performance? Should they sit on existing models and delay releasing new discoveries? I think they have a valid approach but I can see how it could be frustrating for someone who just bought a new pair of speakers. At some point they will have so many speakers currently under production that it might become difficult to manage parts, service, and dealer inventories, I don't know. But this approach generates buzz, and reinforces the perception of constant innovation. It keeps reviews and show reports flowing. It generates an eight page thread in two days and others on different forums.

The S and Q lines are distinct and each has four models. And now there is the M3. If it sounds like the M Pro, it will combine extremely high resolution with low distortion of the Q and the slightly more rich, warm sound of the S plus the lower frequency impact. The M3 is about half the price of the M Pro and I would think would have a larger appeal being slightly smaller and with some new technology. 50 pairs of M Pros sold out quickly. If they sell 100 pairs of these, would that not be considered a success?

What other $75K speakers do people think it will compete against? Wilson, Rockport, others?

I hope this leads to the development of a two-way M mini (Mini III) on a curved stand.

Magico does not sit still and consider what they have done in just ten years. Four distinct lines with a range of models:

Mini
V2
V3
M5

Q1
Q3
Q5
Q7

S1
S3
S5
S7

M Pro
M3

 

[ack]

I'm part of the Boston Group, I guess, and I wrote on this forum that I actually prefer the Q1 to the S7, for much less money. I thought the S7 sounded pretty good, but criticized the vibrations and like the Q series much better for the type of music I listen to and for the aesthetics. I don't think I ever mentioned price as a factor, one way or the other. But, at the time, it was half the price of the M Pro which is no longer available.

I guess I am quite confused about where you guys stand with respect to the S7's sound. Do you object to what I said, that I was the only one that didn't like it? Earlier, I quoted you saying that the three of you "really liked" it. I just went back to our emails, and the praises keep coming. The beginning of that conversation actually set the tone from the start, and here it is:

I was at first not so impressed with the sound at Goodwins, but after the first hour and throughout the rest of the session, Al and I thought the sound was tremendous.

The accolades go on and on and on, and I don't need to repeat all of them here... Then you guys started talking about vibrations (with which I agree) and eventually, yes, that you prefer the Q1 over the S7... Frankly, I can't reconcile what's been written, certainly not "tremendous" and "pretty good", and certainly not "tremendous" and "vibrations"... But anyway, I am moving on, back to the M3.

 

[ack]

The midrange driver IS a hermeticly sealed - just like in any other hi-end speaker. What you see is just a cutout, without cables, dampening material etc., to show the speaker internal build.

The only difference between the M3 and Q3 is the SHAPE of the midrange chamber. The one in the Q3 is rectangular, and the one in M3 (S3/5mk2/S7) is elliptical. For this reason, the later is made of polymer, not aluminium (it would be very difficoult/costly to make one of aluminium).

I think you will agree with me that the original S5 did not protect the midrange, and that they fixed it starting with the S3 later on, then the S5II, etc. cannata made the comment that protecting the midrange is speaker building 101 - well, the S5 failed in that respect, didn't it. Based on this, I'll just say seeing is believing. PeterA's internal-Q3 picture had, ahem, a few holes in it (pun intended), so do you have a picture that shows the acoustical isolation you claim there is in the Q3?

 

[PeterA]

I guess I am quite confused about where you guys stand with respect to the S7's sound. Do you object to what I said, that I was the only one that didn't like it? Earlier, I quoted you saying that the three of you "really liked" it. I just went back to our emails, and the praises keep coming. The beginning of that conversation actually set the tone from the start, and here it is:



The accolades go on and on and on, and I don't need to repeat all of them here... Then you guys started talking about vibrations (with which I agree) and eventually, yes, that you prefer the Q1 over the S7... Frankly, I can't reconcile what's been written, certainly not "tremendous" and "pretty good", and certainly not "tremendous" and "vibrations"... But anyway, I am moving on, back to the M3.

I'll try to reconcile it and perhaps a revisit to Al's thread, "A Remarkable Redbook CD afternoon at Goodwin's High End" will help. I looked up the S7 threads and could not find any comments by me about the speaker.

The overall sound that day in the large listening room was indeed tremendous. But I am referring to the system/room in its entirety. The S7 with the Ssubs, great Spectral/MIT combo and the Vivaldi stack. It was by far the best digital replay that I had ever heard. The S7 was just a part of that overall impression and I think the most impactful aspect of the session was that I had never heard digital sound so natural.

The sound did improve during the session and this was confirmed by the Magico rep who mentioned something about speaker or sub break in or settings to me and Al after the demo. So, the sound of the overall system was indeed "tremendous". The sound of the S7 in particular was "pretty good" but it was difficult to isolate it from the rest of the system. The key was the lack of digital fatigue and that really struck me. The spacial information and sense of presence were spectacular that day in that room, but, as I wrote before, the resolution of the Q1 (not to mention the Q3) is higher. And the S7 did vibrate more than any Q speaker, the M Pro or even my Mini 2.