NHB-108 model one

[microstrip]

There was a gorgeous 108 listed here on WBF for a couple months that couldn't sell at under $11k USD. And that was before the knowledge of a Model Two. So I'd definitely agree that now isn't the time to buy a Model One. A few more should hit the used market in the fall when the Model 2 is released and prices should be even better then for anyone interested in a Model One.

It depends on the price of the upgrade, and mostly on the upgrade schedule. Unfortunately the factory seems not to be able to carry the upgrades in a reasonable time - some people gave up on DartZeel because of successive postponing of upgrades and presentation of new models. IMHO it is why the NH108 or even the NH18s are sometimes being sold at such low prices. But at current low prices, for a patient audiophile an used DartZeel is an excellent deal - and even old models sound great!

There is also a lot of misinformation going around concerning their new products and upgrade prices - in fact I have not been able to read any official statement on this subject, just rumors from users who get private news from Herve or dealers.

 

[Drikus]

And what about the
Naim speakers , you try it?

Yes but the sound is much better with the JBL's.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yes , i thought / said so .
This is an advantage of easy to drive LS.
Mixing matching is much easier.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I can sell you mine at a discount lol.
Mine go perfect from 20 Watts up .
I wanna have the luxury version made with wooden inlays , special finish

 

[Drikus]

Not interested but Elberoth might be .

 

[andromedaaudio]

No elberoth is a dealer they only buy / sell established names.

 

[redandgold]

IMO, in general the upgrade policy is really because darTZeel at least offers upgrades to the newer models. Most of the companies don‘t offer anything and you can sell and rebuy the actual version. But waiting for new releases and information policy is sometimes hard. I have the impression everything depends on Hervé. One man show.

 

[redandgold]

I believe the price of used NHB-108 will not change a lot here in europe. My dealer told me the last price was 28 k€. When I followed the last auctions on audio-markt, they were sold for around 7-8 k€ for around ten year old machines. That‘s only one third. I have no fantasy if someone would throw them on market for less.

Maybe the difference will be stronger between the brandnew model two and used model one. At the preamp the new version got a heavy price push. So maybe 40 k is not far away. Didn‘t get an answer from Hervé about new retail price.

We will see if there will be more offers for used amps and Drikus will succeed finally with his efforts to buy one. .

 

[Elberoth]

Off course agree , i know you ve owned a lot of Amps already Adam , what did you like /not like about the dart?

It is still a great amp. I have owned two of those throughout the years. The biggest problem with darTZeel is that it is not comfortable driving really low inpedance speakers (like Wilson Sasha / Alexia). darTZeel can do microdynamics like few other SS amps.

I have never beed a distributor or a dealer for any brand. I do list stuff for friends, based on my great feedback on various sites, also for people from this forum.

 

[Drikus]

I believe the price of used NHB-108 will not change a lot here in europe. My dealer told me the last price was 28 k€. When I followed the last auctions on audio-markt, they were sold for around 7-8 k€ for around ten year old machines. That‘s only one third. I have no fantasy if someone would throw them on market for less.

Maybe the difference will be stronger between the brandnew model two and used model one. At the preamp the new version got a heavy price push. So maybe 40 k is not far away. Didn‘t get an answer from Hervé about new retail price.

We will see if there will be more offers for used amps and Drikus will succeed finally with his efforts to buy one. .

Drikus has bought something else instead so I'm not interested anymore.

 

[Elberoth]

I believe the price of used NHB-108 will not change a lot here in europe. My dealer told me the last price was 28 k€. When I followed the last auctions on audio-markt, they were sold for around 7-8 k€ for around ten year old machines. That‘s only one third. I have no fantasy if someone would throw them on market for less.

Maybe the difference will be stronger between the brandnew model two and used model one. At the preamp the new version got a heavy price push. So maybe 40 k is not far away. Didn‘t get an answer from Hervé about new retail price.

We will see if there will be more offers for used amps and Drikus will succeed finally with his efforts to buy one. .

I believe most of those ads were for the very same unit from France. One of the reasons the amp did not sell so far, may the the fact, that the seller has mostly zero feedback on the sites he posted those ads.

I have noticed that with the amount of scam on the Internet nowadays, selling hi-end gear without feedback is almost impossible. People are forced to lower the price repeatedly for the items that they cannot sell, to the point interested buyers start thinking the price is too-low-to-be-true and ... walk away. It is a true vicious circle.

 

[Drikus]

I believe most of those ads were for the very same unit from France. One of the reasons the amp did not sell so far, may the the fact, that the seller has mostly zero feedback on the sites he posted those ads.

I have noticed that with the amount of scam on the Internet nowadays, selling hi-end gear without feedback is almost impossible. People are forced to lower the price repeatedly for the items that they cannot sell, to the point interested buyers start thinking the price is too-low-to-be-true and ... walk away. It is a true vicious circle.

I didn't buy the French unit because it was a scam. I offered him cash if I could pick it up and he refused this, said he only accepted a bank transfer, then I could pick it up. Suggested that we go to his bank together so that they could check my cash but he refused this also. If this isn't a scam, I don't know what is...

I don't mean to offend you in anyway but I wouldn't buy anything that's located in eastern europe due to the amount of scammers from that region. It's a pity that honest people like you from that region have to suffer because of that but that's the way it is.

 

[Elberoth]

Good to know it was a scam. Too bad that knowing that, you didn't take any action to inform Audiogon and other sites about this. They are quick to take the suspect the ads down. Someone may have lost his money because of this.

Funny thing you mention eastern europe: the last two scam victims I have spoken to, lost their money buying from France and Sweden respectively.

In my experience (and I have bought over 100 hi-end items from around the world over the past 20 years and NEVER got scammed), instead of relying on prejudices, one should exercise appropriate due diligence.

 

[Drikus]

Lucky for you. I recently sold 2 Lindemann units and was contacted by a chinese person who turned out to be a scammer so forgive me for being prejudiced.

 

[Elberoth]

I get contacted by scammers at least 10-15 times each week. I could write a book about them. They come from all over the world, including ALL European Union countries, US etc. The country of residence means nothing nowadays. On the contrary - it may give you a false sense of security (like the poor guy who bought the 7000 EUR amp from Sweden I mentioned - the Swedish police is still looking for the scammer).

Due diligence - this is the only thing that can help you protect your money.

 

[asiufy]

I have noticed that with the amount of scam on the Internet nowadays, selling hi-end gear without feedback is almost impossible. People are forced to lower the price repeatedly for the items that they cannot sell, to the point interested buyers start thinking the price is too-low-to-be-true and ... walk away. It is a true vicious circle.

This is very true. We just got a call the other day from a gentleman was scammed out of $1000 for an Auralic Vega. So it's not only the more expensive stuff that the scammers are going for now...
And that's why we offer consignment, as we can broker the deal, and help people move their stuff without much hassle.


cheers,
alex

 

[redandgold]

Unfortunately nowadays just buying audiogear with pre-payment is like playing roulette. I bought some great, used staff in the past. But always from a dealer in his shop or by personal visit and payment by cash. So I am happy for you, Drikus, that you uncovered the french offer as scam and didn't loose a lot of money.

 

[redandgold]

It is still a great amp. I have owned two of those throughout the years. The biggest problem with darTZeel is that it is not comfortable driving really low inpedance speakers (like Wilson Sasha / Alexia). darTZeel can do microdynamics like few other SS amps.

I have never beed a distributor or a dealer for any brand. I do list stuff for friends, based on my great feedback on various sites, also for people from this forum.

Concerning to the low impedance weakness: Did you have the opportunity to compare the older NHB-108 and the newer version with SNCP-upgrade? Did you try to drive a Wilson speaker with SNCP?

 

[luiscesar]

Concerning to the low impedance weakness: Did you have the opportunity to compare the older NHB-108 and the newer version with SNCP-upgrade? Did you try to drive a Wilson speaker with SNCP?

When I bought the Darzeel Pre+Amp (108B) was becacuse I had at home a Wilson Alexia (which I wanted to buy). It turned to be a wonderful speaker but my Krell FPB series + ARC Reference 5 preamp were unable to obtain a satisfactory sound.
So I did a check with the 108B and the sound was AWESOME !!. My room space is 45m2 so the sound here were loud, beautiful and clear. No problems driving the difficult Alexias in this space.
It is a matter of Amp+Speaker +room space you have to fill with sound with good pressure levels to be satisfied.

Anyway the combo Alexias + Darts were expensive, So I returned the Alexias, purchased the Dart Combo, and Wilsons Watt/Puppy 8.
And I am very happy and never thought about Alexias... (well one or twice )

 

[redandgold]

Hi LuisCesar,

thank you for your impression about driving Alexias with darTZeel electronics! Does you 108 amp has the SNCP-upgrade? Good to know that this amp can drive an Alexia. Sometimes you read different. My room is similar, a bit larger with 50 sqm. I think about purchasing by time a 108 for center channel or rear speakers (the Sophia 3 is more loudspeaker friendly).

You highlight a really interesting topic: Is it better to invest your money in electronics or speakers? Normaly you always invest in room and speaker. I think you should spend your money in the weakest link of your chain. In my case I was longtime thinking about the alternatives between a WA Alexx or darTZeel monos. Was is better? Nobody can tell you. I decided for the red and gold party.