Noise. That damned demon you may not even know about...

[sbnx]

I think Tom is talking about noise in general and not just digital noise. However, digital is extremely noisy by nature so this is a great place to start removing noise from a system. There are several types of noise which have different entry points into a system.

Everything in an audio system effects everything else. I had a conversation with a gentleman a few weeks ago who listens to 90% vinyl. I told him if that is what I did, then I would turn off all of my digital components -- streamer, dac, etc. These components are connected to the same ground and the same preamp so they are effecting the noise floor of the analog rig.

One of the surprises to me a few years ago was how much the ethernet affects ripped files. I once largely ignored my network stuff becasue I only really stream to find new music. If there is something I like, I purchase the CD and rip it. Then purchased a reasonable audiophile grade switch. Then I started playing with other network things. To my shock, ripped files sound better when action is taken to mitigate ethernet noise. I believe the reason for this is the ethernet is injecting noise into the streamer/server regardless if music is played throught it or not.

 

[Elliot G.]

I think Tom is talking about noise in general and not just digital noise. However, digital is extremely noisy by nature so this is a great place to start removing noise from a system. There are several types of noise which have different entry points into a system.

Everything in an audio system effects everything else. I had a conversation with a gentleman a few weeks ago who listens to 90% vinyl. I told him if that is what I did, then I would turn off all of my digital components -- streamer, dac, etc. These components are connected to the same ground and the same preamp so they are effecting the noise floor of the analog rig.

One of the surprises to me a few years ago was how much the ethernet affects ripped files. I once largely ignored my network stuff becasue I only really stream to find new music. If there is something I like, I purchase the CD and rip it. Then purchased a reasonable audiophile grade switch. Then I started playing with other network things. To my shock, ripped files sound better when action is taken to mitigate ethernet noise. I believe the reason for this is the ethernet is injecting noise into the streamer/server regardless if music is played throught it or not.

I spent a day with Grant Samuelson from Shunyata a while back and we went through various areas where there is noise and where noise is generated. I was amazed at some of what was possible to remove and how much more of the music was available once these sources are addressed. I think people have an idea of what can happen with a power cord and that is big but only the beginning. They do a lot of professional work with Medical facilities and also with recording studios where noise is a huge issue and so this is a priority in Mr. Gabriel's designs.

 

[SuperDave]

A good electrical foundation is important, dedicated lines instead of a shared circuit with lighting and a refrigerator limit noise pollution in my stereo. My Tripoint grounding station lowered the noise floor even more, still sounds very dynamic even at low volume.

 

[Holmz]

It sounds like your focused on digital noise. Not noise in general. Like I noted. Having a ethernet cable plugged in or disconnected has no bearing on the sound from my tape, vinyl or digital stores on my server.
My streaming is my lowest quality source. My tape absolutely destroys my streaming and digitally stores files.

There are many threads on digital noise and how to remove it.

Is the thread about general noise or digital streaming noise?

Amen to ^all that^.

I did not even know what people were talking about until I plugged in a DAC.
And digital is not main playback thing I use when I really want to listen.

 

[Lee]

So, let me clarify a bit on the noise I am talking about. It's a combination of noise floor, room minimum dB level, RFI, EMI, leakage current, jitter, Allan deviation, reflections within the room, timing variances within the 1's and 0's (whether it be immediate, misread, short or long), along with noise that rides the incoming A/C waveform, or if you stream? Through the incoming cable.

This noise is not the same as vinyl surface noise or tube noise, although you want to try and keep those as low as possible as well.

I used to listen to my CDP and think that there was no noise. This was with a Marantz SA-7S1 reference player. Two years ago, as I really got into improving every aspect of my streaming rig, I started to slowly discover that streaming started sounding cleaner than physical music. WHAT?

So, I started looking into why this would be....as I never had any issues with CD's before. Especially with the Marantz. I learned a lot about the "noises", how they manifested themself, where they came from, what gear I could use or utilize to get rid of it and what caused what, what affected what and how to eliminate as much of this noise as possible.

I wouldn't have....or probably wouldn't have ever known any of this for years to come, had it not been for a cheap, $14 ethernet cable upgrade. That lead to me learning about what E cables did. Then there was the Muon Pro.

Geez, I hated that thing for the first week or two...but after that, my audio journey really took off. That lead to me upgrading my clock, which lead to me upgrading my CDP to a transport and dedicated DAC.

Had it not been for my streaming journey taking off like it did, I would still be happily listening to that same noise I have listened to all my life. That transport was the last piece of gear I bought. Since then, every new addition to the rig has been nothing but things that help the rig eliminate any and every type of noise.

From the Purons, to shielded (double and triple shielded) cables, to the Snubway and MC....every purchase since then attacks noise. Literally no more of the gear merry go 'round. Doing that really exposed what the gear I already had.....well, what it actually could do.

I would like to think I have a pretty decent system in the whole grand scheme of things. Not that it's a competition or anything....I know full well that there are many systems out there that make my system look like a blue light K-mart special. That's all fine and dandy, to each their own. But with that said, I haven't heard a system....any system do so many things so well, across all frequencies and volume levels, with so many genres of music so cleanly, effortlessly and with such blackness in-between the images. All this with no boundaries within the room, other than height. In other words, I have yet to hear a sound come from directly above my head or beneath my listening chair.

I don't think it's the gear that does this. I think it's because of the loss of noise.

A question was raised elsewhere that got me thinking tonight. The question was two parts. How do you know when you are done? That was one part. The other part was, are you an audiophile or a music lover?

I think my answer to that is this. Now that the noise is gone? I may now be done being an audiophile because all I hear now is the music. That's all I hear now....and it's radiantly shining a small slice of audio heaven on Earth for me.

I cannot emphasize enough to all of you (even if you think you have no noise) to thwart any hint of noise from distracting you from what is possible.

Tom

Great post. There is Schumann resonance as well.

 

[Lee]

I spent a day with Grant Samuelson from Shunyata a while back and we went through various areas where there is noise and where noise is generated. I was amazed at some of what was possible to remove and how much more of the music was available once these sources are addressed. I think people have an idea of what can happen with a power cord and that is big but only the beginning. They do a lot of professional work with Medical facilities and also with recording studios where noise is a huge issue and so this is a priority in Mr. Gabriel's designs.

Grant showed me how to properly ground the system. I couldn’t believe what a difference it made. Caelin and Grant suggested the Gemini on the router to condition and ground it. That was a significant improvement too.