On Cables

[Kingrex]

I have 2549 Mogami microphone cable. It is wired single ended with the outer braid terminated on 1 end. Its 37 feet long. I can't tell it from another 5 foot custom interconnect from a talented designer. I find my tape which it is used with to be shockingly good. It runs parallel to a lamp cord for 4 feet or so without seeming to pick up noise.

I find the connector to have a large influence on the performance. I personally like the screw connector. Not the solder. I feel there is less color.

 

[Cellcbern]

I find the idea that someone can distinguish the sound of their components from the sound of the cables that allow them to function, and the idea that there is something wrong with using cables to optimize the sound of your system, puzzling. It is not possible to know what a cable or component sounds like by itself. The only thing it is possible to listen to is the interaction among components and (multiple) cables. So we have no choice but to use cables to tune our components/system (or the reverse if you like), whether or not we acknowledge this or pursue it purposefully.

 

[Kingrex]

I'm interested in the vibrations. I have a refer/freezer that has a low modulating hum that couples with my phono stage. I was wondering if it was in the air. Maybe into the tubes. Someone else said what about the floor. Then Peter said he has pillars in his basement. My basement is a garage I am using so that is not happening. But I am considering dropping the the drywall ceiling, blocking out the floor under the stand and maybe a couple sections further, then using multiple coats of Spectrum Anti Vibration compound all on the underside of the floor/joist/blocks. While I am at it I would go over to where the refrigerator is and do some what the same. I sort of wonder how much is in the floor and not in the air as the floor vibration would have to go through 2 steel beams and the joist are 2 separate sections separated by the beams. The joist are on hangers. It just see unlikely the vibration is moving through that. My speakers are isolated from the floor so I don't see them injecting a lot of noise back. My biggest issue is footfalls smearing the sound or causing a skip.
I am part way through building a sliding door to separate the listening room from the kitchen where the noisy refrigerator is.

Sorry to waylay your cable thread.

 

[Cellcbern]

I'm interested in the vibrations. I have a refer/freezer that has a low modulating hum that couples with my phono stage. I was wondering if it was in the air. Maybe into the tubes. Someone else said what about the floor. Then Peter said he has pillars in his basement. My basement is a garage I am using so that is not happening. But I am considering dropping the the drywall ceiling, blocking out the floor under the stand and maybe a couple sections further, then using multiple coats of Spectrum Anti Vibration compound all on the underside of the floor/joist/blocks. While I am at it I would go over to where the refrigerator is and do some what the same. I sort of wonder how much is in the floor and not in the air as the floor vibration would have to go through 2 steel beams and the joist are 2 separate sections separated by the beams. The joist are on hangers. It just see unlikely the vibration is moving through that. My speakers are isolated from the floor so I don't see them injecting a lot of noise back. My biggest issue is footfalls smearing the sound or causing a skip.
I am part way through building a sliding door to separate the listening room from the kitchen where the noisy refrigerator is.

Sorry to waylay your cable

How are you isolating the phono stage and TT?

 

[VLS]

I feel fortunate to have a room adjacent to the listening room. In this adjacent room I can locate the sources and phono stage and pre-amplifiers, leaving only the amplifiers and the speakers in the listening room. I like being able to get the sources and other front-end components out of the line of fire of the speakers.

One way to tackle this might be to start with your sources in the same room as your amps and speakers, permitting the use - and this comparison - of normal cable lengths. Once you zero in on the brand you like most., move your sources to the next room and order a long version of the cable you like.

The reason why I think this would work is because I believe the effect of different cables on sound will be far greater than the effect of same/different room for your sources (unless you listen at earth-shattering SPLs).

 

[miniguy]

I have 2549 Mogami microphone cable. It is wired single ended with the outer braid terminated on 1 end. Its 37 feet long. I can't tell it from another 5 foot custom interconnect from a talented designer. I find my tape which it is used with to be shockingly good. It runs parallel to a lamp cord for 4 feet or so without seeming to pick up noise.

I find the connector to have a large influence on the performance. I personally like the screw connector. Not the solder. I feel there is less color.

2549 is excellent stuff as is 3103 speaker cable.

 

[Ron Resnick]

a Question
if the amps were in the same room as the front end how long would the speaker wires need to be ?

Approximately the same 50 foot length as the interconnects. I would never use speaker cables that long. I think it is ill-advised to use speaker cables remotely that long.

 

[Ron Resnick]

One way to tackle this might be to start with your sources in the same room as your amps and speakers, permitting the use - and this comparison - of normal cable lengths. Once you zero in on the brand you like most., move your sources to the next room and order a long version of the cable you like.

The reason why I think this would work is because I believe the effect of different cables on sound will be far greater than the effect of same/different room for your sources (unless you listen at earth-shattering SPLs).

I think that this is a very sound idea. I’m not going to do it, because I’m not going to set-up the turntable (ah, ask David to set-up the turntable) twice. But I think your idea makes a lot of sense and is analytically valid.

 

[VLS]

I think that this is a very sound idea. I’m not going to do it, because I’m not going to set-up the turntable (ah, ask David to set-up the turntable) twice. But I think your idea makes a lot of sense and is analytically valid.

I believe we are primarily talking about the IC between your preamp and your amps, right? If so, I think you could pick the “right” cable using a good DAC, which would eliminate the need of moving the turntable.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I believe we are primarily talking about the IC between your preamp and your amps, right? If so, I think you could pick the “right” cable using a good DAC, which would eliminate the need of moving the turntable.

Yes, if the selection of the “right” cable using a good DAC would solve the same equation as the selection of the “right” cable using the turntable as the source, then I agree with you. This definitely is plausible.

Thank you!

 

[microstrip]

Approximately the same 50 foot length as the interconnects. I would never use speaker cables that long. I think it is ill-advised to use speaker cables remotely that long.

Although I have the same feeling as you by instinct, considering the VTL Siegrieds have an output impedance around 1 ohm there is no reason to avoid the 50 foot length if we use cables with a decent area conductor.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hi Ron. It is worth checking out the Gotham gac 4 that Tango recommended me. It is star quad pro mic cable with W shields. Extremely quiet. Probably just what you want with that very long 50ft run.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron. It is worth checking out the Gotham gac 4 that Tango recommended me. It is star quad pro mic cable with W shields. Extremely quiet. Probably just what you want with that very long 50ft run.

Thank you, Bill. I am going to await David’s recommendation. I think he has been evaluating a Belden cable.

 

[gleeds]

blue jeans is one I use
gary gave me an understanding to types cables and effects
its funny I know theory but was clueless to audio effects
I think tima is correct in neutrality
I’ll bet many think of an alt way

I would think a bal cable is good choice
low capacitance to me is also good as start

may I ask why so long of a run ?

Agree with Alrainbow. For the same reasons as Ron (albeit my run is only 30 feet), I use Belden 1500F from BJC between our Westminster Lab monoblocks and pre-amp. They offer low capacitance (a spec that matters, especially for longer runs) and come terminated with excellent quality Nuetrix connectors. I have not experienced any deleterious artifacts I can detect in my system, and for practicality, using otherwise top-level cables in all positions except this one.

 

[Tango]

Try blue Belkin Synapse. It is the least stick out sounding cable I found. ddk is using them. I am not. But I certainly would want to have it in my cable bin in case I want to fine tune my sound. Recommendation from David is very reliable but dont just take his words for granted. Need to learn by yourself too otherwise you do not understand where he is coming from recommending something. I have Belden 8422. It has smoother tone than the 8 meter Gepco I am using to connect pre to amps. These cables are cheap so one can find out pros/cons himself if fit to his system.

 

[Kingrex]

How are you isolating the phono stage and TT?

Not very well. I have a rack that is functional but not isolated. The TT is on a 1/2" piece of acrylic on the rack. The phono pre is on a 1/2" corian with footers on top of that. I am limited by space. I need a tripple wide rack and its hard to get one. I am thinking of breaking down my rack, running a new 1/2" piece of 9 ply birch, then 5/8" marble, then a steel plate on top. Shelving liner between the layers. You can see the rack in my image.

 

[Kingrex]

As a consideration, I find certain cables to have more impact than others. If I had to grade them from most to least I would say
Speaker
Power
USB
Interconnect.

For this reason I would go with a longer interconnect over a longer speaker.
You can go with as long a power cable as you want, as long as you size it properly.

On other threads, especially ones pertaining to grounding boxes, the concept that RF couples to equipment quite readily, and certain cables becomes a consideration. RF does not have near as easy a time of getting into a power cable as it does into a speaker or interconnect. An interconnect can have a good shield. My Mogami cable has a nice copper braid. Copper is a good RF Shield. Speaker cables don't have as good a shields. I think mine has 1 layer of mylar. I don't know how much shielding is used in speaker cables, if any at all. I think most people try and twist. But I hear you have to twist about 1 twist per inch, which is very very tight to get any sort of RF rejection. You are not going to twist a 10awg or larger cable tigher than 1 twist per 2 inch.

My understanding of RF is that is clouds the music and blocks lower bass frequency. That is just hearsay to me from general reading. I am not an engineer that has studied this in depth. I would not want that happening in my speaker cable. There is no way I know to get it out.

If some RF got into an interconnect, a ground box might take some back out. And again, a decent interconnect can come with a copper shield. Copper shields against RF as well as lower order noise such as 120 volt magnetic/electron interference quite well.

 

[Gregadd]

"{text omitted} refer/freezer...?"

 

[Kingrex]

"{text omitted} refer/freezer...?"

Combo unit in most every kitchen. Refrigerator/Freezer. As opposed to say a deep well freezer in your basement. Or a wine refrigerator. Its the compressor in the freezer section of my unit that is making the modulating hum.

 

[Gregm]

The reason why I think this would work is because I believe the effect of different cables on sound will be far greater than the effect of same/different room for your sources (unless you listen at earth-shattering SPLs).

Not to be pedantic but, from my experience, the sonic difference when I had the same set-up (TT & tape deck in the other room) was significant. Suspended wooden floors, old construction, etc.
No recollection of being bothered by the set-up... The cable I used was DNM's own (at the time I had a DNM 6 pre / phono)