"Oprah" dumps Magico for Estelon. Thank GOD! Thougts on the Estelon?

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
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Imagine you are watching a favorite TV show and you are constantly bombarded with annoying commercials and promotions. Even if you fast forward through the junk on your DVR, you still catch remnants of it. It's impossible to ignore.... This type of marketing is effective due to constant bombardment of our minds, but ufcking annoying!! And that's what TAS readers have had to put with the last few years with Valin and Magico.

I had a chance to read the latest TAS over the holiday weekend and was very surprised to find a review from Valin where he did not sing the praises of Magico. In fact, Magico was not even listed in his reference system. WoW! Just 2 years ago, he was whining in the conclusion of his Q5 review about how great it was and how he was going to negotiate a deal with Wolf to buy the review sample. Isn't the dude's job just to report how gear sounds? Valin nearly destroyed TAS in the process with his promotional role. If he had any integrity, he should should have quit and took a job with Wolf helping the super-nice, goateed Magico dude set them up at shows and act in the role of what McGrath does for Wilson. But I guess not. Now, we don't really know what happened. The real Oprah did recommend the new Microsoft Surface tablet this holiday season - from her iPad. But, I hope that the Magico phase is done for Valin - as a teenage girl moves from the goth phase to the emo phase and back to being a regular teenager. I hope TAS can now get back to normalcy after 4 years of endless Magico promotion. THANK GOD!

Here's Valin on his new favorites - the Estelons:

" ...Like Maggies or mbls, the Estelon X Diamond simply carves out a different ambient space within the ambience of your listening room and disappears within it. That space expands, as with a classic left-right A/B-miked stereo recording like Ian and Sylvia’s Four Strong Winds [Vanguard], or contracts, as with the great monaural recording of Penderecki’s spooky Cello Concerto [Muza] superbly played by the great cellist Siegfried Palm, as the source dictates. But whether the stage is narrow or wide, shallow or deep, stunted or sky-high, the X Diamonds just don’t seem to be “projecting” it (or any parts of it) from box or drivers. The only other time I’ve had this experience with a large cone speaker (well, cone and ribbon) was with the Scaena 3.4 at CES a couple of years ago. The X Diamonds are that free-standing and that “not there.” ..."

Amazing!!! he is just describing the sound of the speaker, as a reviewer should! Maybe the pounding promotion will start in the next issue, but I hope not. And for Estelon, it would be much better off if they had normal people, demonically passionate amateurs who love their speaker, as brand ambassadors.

Most people think I am a raving hater of Magico, but it's not true. I wish them luck. They have accomplished a lot since getting on the scene, but they did get a lot of help and constant chatter from Valin that was nearly impossible to ignore for those following high end. Where would Magico be without Valin? I'm not suggesting Wolf would be sweeping the streets, but Magico would be just one of many companies trying to break through the clutter. And although they still have others to prop them up, they will have to work harder to stand on their feet.

They do have Robert Harley now, and he has called the Q7 "BEST", but he is quite analytical in his writing: "....The Rowland electronics and Q7 share many fundamental goals, particularly
in the area of resonance control, resolution of micro-dynamics, reduction of stored energy, and the general removal of sources of signal contamination. The Q7 is so transparent and resolving
that it immediately exposes any amplifier or source shortcomings.... Dude, you work for the Absolute Sound!!! Just because you, as a reviewer, are seeking that Deeper Understanding of your music collection, doesn't mean your readers want the same thing. People buy gear for a musical experience, not for audiophile words! Does the damn gear sound like music?!????!!!!

Also, Jeff Tonepub is promising a review of the S5 speaker in the next issue of his magazine. Tonepub may be a gear head, and despite his sin of dCS, he usually recommends gear that sounds like real music. So the S series is promising. Maybe the new S series speakers- the S7 and S9 can create that level of MBL (and Estelon-like, according to Valin) realism that some of us are looking for.

Overall, this is great news to music lovers and TAS subscribers!

Anyone hear the Estelons?
 
I heard the Estelons about three months ago. A good speaker, BUT not one I would drop big coin for. The looks left me cold, and while the speaker had good ability to disappear and throw a fairly large stage; I coudn't get past the slight tendency to strideness that i heard from the ceramic drivers. The bottom end was robust and able, BUT not IMO that realistic sounding. Unlike JV,I certainly wouldn't give this speaker such a rave review. OTOH, I am beggining to think I am getting far more discriminatory in what knocks my socks off than some people who review:(
Therefore, YMMV.
 
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Maybe Magico asked for Valin to either pay for the speakers or return them. :D. No prizes for what path he chose.
 
I heard this speaker at RMAF. Funnily enough, I was in the room when Valin auditioned it too.
It's a good speaker, very good actually. And looks nice too, the blue colour on the units at RMAF was simply gorgeous, and the finish is impeccable. But it's not better than Magico's Q3, let alone the bigger ones. It might be up there with a S5 maybe...
I think that a reviewer should keep his references reasonably stable, but he (JV) chose not to, simply because he also chose not to pay for his gear. So basically his references are what's available from his sponsors. Other reviewrs, like the much lambasted Fremer, pays for his stuff, and keeps them for a while longer, even if it's only due to limitations imposed by his accomodation pricing...


alexandre
 
the Estelon X Diamond simply carves out a different ambient space within the ambience of your listening room and disappears within it. That space expands, as with a classic left-right A/B-miked stereo recording like Ian and Sylvia’s Four Strong Winds [Vanguard], or contracts, as with the great monaural recording of Penderecki’s spooky Cello Concerto

Faint praise. This is what good stereo is supposed to do. If the image doesn't expand and contract with much subtler demands of the recording than stereo vs mono, if the speakers don't disappear within that image, something is very wrong with the speakers or the set-up. MHO. YMMV.

Tim
 
Imagine you are watching a favorite TV show and you are constantly bombarded with annoying commercials and promotions. Even if you fast forward through the junk on your DVR, you still catch remnants of it. It's impossible to ignore.... This type of marketing is effective due to constant bombardment of our minds, but ufcking annoying!! And that's what TAS readers have had to put with the last few years with Valin and Magico.

I had a chance to read the latest TAS over the holiday weekend and was very surprised to find a review from Valin where he did not sing the praises of Magico. In fact, Magico was not even listed in his reference system. WoW! Just 2 years ago, he was whining in the conclusion of his Q5 review about how great it was and how he was going to negotiate a deal with Wolf to buy the review sample. Isn't the dude's job just to report how gear sounds? Valin nearly destroyed TAS in the process with his promotional role. If he had any integrity, he should should have quit and took a job with Wolf helping the super-nice, goateed Magico dude set them up at shows and act in the role of what McGrath does for Wilson. But I guess not. Now, we don't really know what happened. The real Oprah did recommend the new Microsoft Surface tablet this holiday season - from her iPad. But, I hope that the Magico phase is done for Valin - as a teenage girl moves from the goth phase to the emo phase and back to being a regular teenager. I hope TAS can now get back to normalcy after 4 years of endless Magico promotion. THANK GOD!

Here's Valin on his new favorites - the Estelons:

" ...Like Maggies or mbls, the Estelon X Diamond simply carves out a different ambient space within the ambience of your listening room and disappears within it. That space expands, as with a classic left-right A/B-miked stereo recording like Ian and Sylvia’s Four Strong Winds [Vanguard], or contracts, as with the great monaural recording of Penderecki’s spooky Cello Concerto [Muza] superbly played by the great cellist Siegfried Palm, as the source dictates. But whether the stage is narrow or wide, shallow or deep, stunted or sky-high, the X Diamonds just don’t seem to be “projecting” it (or any parts of it) from box or drivers. The only other time I’ve had this experience with a large cone speaker (well, cone and ribbon) was with the Scaena 3.4 at CES a couple of years ago. The X Diamonds are that free-standing and that “not there.” ..."

Amazing!!! he is just describing the sound of the speaker, as a reviewer should! Maybe the pounding promotion will start in the next issue, but I hope not. And for Estelon, it would be much better off if they had normal people, demonically passionate amateurs who love their speaker, as brand ambassadors.

Most people think I am a raving hater of Magico, but it's not true. I wish them luck. They have accomplished a lot since getting on the scene, but they did get a lot of help and constant chatter from Valin that was nearly impossible to ignore for those following high end. Where would Magico be without Valin? I'm not suggesting Wolf would be sweeping the streets, but Magico would be just one of many companies trying to break through the clutter. And although they still have others to prop them up, they will have to work harder to stand on their feet.

They do have Robert Harley now, and he has called the Q7 "BEST", but he is quite analytical in his writing: "....The Rowland electronics and Q7 share many fundamental goals, particularly
in the area of resonance control, resolution of micro-dynamics, reduction of stored energy, and the general removal of sources of signal contamination. The Q7 is so transparent and resolving
that it immediately exposes any amplifier or source shortcomings.... Dude, you work for the Absolute Sound!!! Just because you, as a reviewer, are seeking that Deeper Understanding of your music collection, doesn't mean your readers want the same thing. People buy gear for a musical experience, not for audiophile words! Does the damn gear sound like music?!????!!!!

Also, Jeff Tonepub is promising a review of the S5 speaker in the next issue of his magazine. Tonepub may be a gear head, and despite his sin of dCS, he usually recommends gear that sounds like real music. So the S series is promising. Maybe the new S series speakers- the S7 and S9 can create that level of MBL (and Estelon-like, according to Valin) realism that some of us are looking for.

Overall, this is great news to music lovers and TAS subscribers!

Anyone hear the Estelons?

You are celebrating way, way too early my friend. TAS is not dropping their championing of Magico. Valin is just passing the torch to Robert Harley,
who's review of the Q7 will appear soon. He crowns it the best speaker he has ever heard, bar none.

Secondly, I heard the S5's myself at Newport and was pretty impressed, and I believe Jeff was too. There are alternative ways to reviewing or recommending a speaker
than saying it was the "best". A speaker may be very impressive on many fronts, but it may not be the speaker for you, however, that does not warrant a negative review either,
since it clearly will appeal to listeners who appreciate the specific set of virtues it brings to the table.
 
Imagine you are watching a favorite TV show and you are constantly bombarded with annoying commercials and promotions. Even if you fast forward through the junk on your DVR, you still catch remnants of it. It's impossible to ignore.... This type of marketing is effective due to constant bombardment of our minds, but ufcking annoying!! And that's what TAS readers have had to put with the last few years with Valin and Magico.

Unfortunately, we have this happening on WBF as well. :(
 
I stopped reading TAS a while ago since it lacked of technical analyses and, more or less, every expensive piece of gear that was reviewed was also acknowledge as the best (just check the list of reference digital sources by RH...).

Notwithstanding, Magico Q7 (which I've never listened to), as well as other speakers or other impressive pieces of gear, are believable components which might turn you dizzy (positively, I mean).
There's nothing strange if reviewers raved for the Q7s or the Alexandria XLF. There's nothing strange if a given reviewer finds sometimes a better product.
What annoys me is if every month there's a new best product.
 
I heard this speaker at RMAF. Funnily enough, I was in the room when Valin auditioned it too.
It's a good speaker, very good actually. And looks nice too, the blue colour on the units at RMAF was simply gorgeous, and the finish is impeccable. But it's not better than Magico's Q3, let alone the bigger ones. It might be up there with a S5 maybe...
I think that a reviewer should keep his references reasonably stable, but he (JV) chose not to, simply because he also chose not to pay for his gear. So basically his references are what's available from his sponsors. Other reviewrs, like the much lambasted Fremer, pays for his stuff, and keeps them for a while longer, even if it's only due to limitations imposed by his accomodation pricing...


alexandre

This speaker was the Estelon X2, not the X Diamond (which is white, costs twice as much, and is the one Valin reviewed for TAS). At ~$34k/pr, I was quite impressed with the X2, which seemed nearly as good as I remember the X Diamond (from the 2011 RAMF) at about half the price.
 
AH, there you go... I guess he was suitably impressed with the X2 at RMAF, and since he's JV, asked for the full bling X Diamond :D
And yes, the X2 was indeed very good and very impressive. Can't blame JV for liking it.


alexandre
 
I've enjoyed the time we've spent with the Estelons. And we did the first review on them in North America (perhaps the world) last year, way before they became mr. Valin's latest darlings. Big fan of the sound and the shape. Definitely one of my favorites.
 
His review of the X Diamond would have already been finished long before RAMF.
 
Also, Jeff Tonepub is promising a review of the S5 speaker in the next issue of his magazine. Tonepub may be a gear head, and despite his sin of dCS, he usually recommends gear that sounds like real music. So the S series is promising. Maybe the new S series speakers- the S7 and S9 can create that level of MBL (and Estelon-like, according to Valin) realism that some of us are looking for.

Overall, this is great news to music lovers and TAS subscribers!

Anyone hear the Estelons?

So how is owning dCS gear a sin?

Sorry, I've auditioned or reviewed everything else and I really enjoy the dCS Paganini. Will probably upgrade to the Vivaldi after the review is done if my daughter doesn't end up costing me too much this year.

Not really knowing me, I think the "gear head" comment is a little silly. Yes I have my hands on a lot of gear because reviewing gear is my job. However my reference components have stayed pretty stable over the years. Had CJ electronics for five years, moved up to Burmester. Now that I have two reference systems, the Burmester is still in room two, while the ARC/Pass combination has been in room one for almost two years now. Been using AVID turntables for five, the Sooloos for five, etc etc.

Other than Mikey and Jacob Heilbrunn (the only other reviewers I know with big systems that actually own all or most of their stuff) I submit that my contemporaries swap gear much more often than I do, whatever.

Though I must admit to somewhat of a turntable obsession lately, so I guess guilty as charged. I suppose I really don't need 12 turntables.

But it sure makes comparison tests a LOT easier!

:)
 
So how is owning dCS gear a sin?

Sorry, I've auditioned or reviewed everything else and I really enjoy the dCS Paganini. Will probably upgrade to the Vivaldi after the review is done if my daughter doesn't end up costing me too much this year.

Not really knowing me, I think the "gear head" comment is a little silly. Yes I have my hands on a lot of gear because reviewing gear is my job. However my reference components have stayed pretty stable over the years. Had CJ electronics for five years, moved up to Burmester. Now that I have two reference systems, the Burmester is still in room two, while the ARC/Pass combination has been in room one for almost two years now. Been using AVID turntables for five, the Sooloos for five, etc etc.

Other than Mikey and Jacob Heilbrunn (the only other reviewers I know with big systems that actually own all or most of their stuff) I submit that my contemporaries swap gear much more often than I do, whatever.

Though I must admit to somewhat of a turntable obsession lately, so I guess guilty as charged. I suppose I really don't need 12 turntables.

But it sure makes comparison tests a LOT easier!

:)

Actually I own everything in my system and if you go to the PFO website, all reviewers are required to show what they do and don't own in their system.
 
The break up with Magico must've been really bad :D See...

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/raidho-c-41-pt-ii/

"I might as well say this outright: These are not only the most transparent-to-source loudspeakers I’ve yet heard in my room; they are the most transparent-to-room loudspeakers I’ve yet heard. Like sonic microscopes, they seemingly make every little adjustment more unmistakably audible."

Anyone heard these?


alexandre
 
I think these would be more comparable to the S7 than any of the Magico's JV has reviewed (or seriously auditioned?)
 
I heard the Estelons about three months ago. A good speaker, BUT not one I would drop big coin for. The looks left me cold, and while the speaker had good ability to disappear and throw a fairly large stage; I coudn't get past the slight tendency to strideness that i heard from the ceramic drivers. The bottom end was robust and able, BUT not IMO that realistic sounding. Unlike JV,I certainly wouldn't give this speaker such a rave review. OTOH, I am beggining to think I am getting far more discriminatory in what knocks my socks off than some people who review:(
Therefore, YMMV.

DaveyF, I actually really, really, really like the looks - from the pictures. But I have a passion for modern design. I'm not sure if by "stridency" you mean "edginess". If so, I agree. But maybe this Alfred guy figured something out.
 

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