Osama Bin Laden has been killed
- Thread starter RogerD
- Start date
And you used the words pathetic bloated, blood-sucking parasite once...oh, wait a minute...that was "Rush."
Tim
The Pakistanis are furious that we had the audacity to conduct this raid without notifying them first. They would have preferred to handle this themselves. US spokespersons replied that we purposely did not tip the Pakistanis off to the upcoming mission, because their internal "leaks" would have certainly warned Bin Laden and ruined the chances for success. The Pakistanis are calling it a blow to their sovereignty.
Lee
Lee
The Commander in Chief of the United States Armed Forces is the President of the United States, according to Article II, Section 2, Clause I of the Constitution.
The current Commander-in-chief of the United States is Barack Obama, the 43rd person to hold the position.
There's no other way to look at it but a sidestep not only to Pakistan's sovereignty but also to its government. I mean if were talking of another country here aside from the US, it would look like an invasion of sorts as choppers flew inside Pakistan's airspace and military personnel were inside Pakistan to actually kill somebody as if there was a state of war that existed between the a foreign nation (USA) and Pakistan. If that were so, then Pakistan is turning a blind eye on the military activities of the US, yet is obviously harboring or allowing Bin Laden et al to occupy a $1m fortress/residence. It seems that these 2 'blind eyes' cancel each other out in the end. But one really gets to wonder what is going on inside Pakistan and how their govt works after this piece of action. Aren't we supposed to assume that there may be more million dollar mansion/fortresses nearby Islamabad with this kind of attitude from the Pakistanis?
A couple of years ago I was set to attend the caucus of Asian political parties to be held in Pakistan. A week before my date of departure, the hotel was turned into a blazing inferno. If I were the Pakistani government I would feign indignation too for fear of retaliation. I also wouldn't be all too sad about Bin Laden's death after the terrorist attack I mentioned which caused deaths of Pakistani nationals and put their nation in an embarrassing position. I bet they are saying good riddance as well.
This news proves that things are more complicated than what they already are.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_bi_ge/as_pakistan_bin_laden
Bin Laden's luxury hideout raises questions:
Excerpts:
By NAHAL TOOSI and KATHY GANNON, Associated Press – Mon May 2, 7:50 pm ET
ABBOTTABAD, Pakistan – Osama bin Laden made his final stand in a small Pakistani city where three army regiments with thousands of soldiers are based not far from the capital — a location that is increasing suspicions in Washington that Islamabad may have been sheltering him.
The U.S. acted alone in Monday's helicopter raid, did not inform Pakistan until it was over and pointedly did not thank Pakistan at the end of a wildly successful operation. All this suggests more strain ahead in a relationship that was already suffering because of U.S. accusations that the Pakistanis are supporting Afghan militants and Pakistani anger over American drone attacks and spy activity.
Pakistani intelligence agencies are normally very sharp in sniffing out the presence of foreigners in small cities.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_bi_ge/as_pakistan_bin_laden
Bin Laden's luxury hideout raises questions:
Excerpts:
By NAHAL TOOSI and KATHY GANNON, Associated Press – Mon May 2, 7:50 pm ET
ABBOTTABAD, Pakistan – Osama bin Laden made his final stand in a small Pakistani city where three army regiments with thousands of soldiers are based not far from the capital — a location that is increasing suspicions in Washington that Islamabad may have been sheltering him.
The U.S. acted alone in Monday's helicopter raid, did not inform Pakistan until it was over and pointedly did not thank Pakistan at the end of a wildly successful operation. All this suggests more strain ahead in a relationship that was already suffering because of U.S. accusations that the Pakistanis are supporting Afghan militants and Pakistani anger over American drone attacks and spy activity.
Pakistani intelligence agencies are normally very sharp in sniffing out the presence of foreigners in small cities.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
From Comcast News
US holds photos of slain bin Laden, weighs release
By ADAM GOLDMAN and KIMBERLY DOZIER, Associated Press – 47 mins ago
WASHINGTON – Still-secret photos of the dead Osama bin Laden show a precision kill shot above his left eye, a U.S. official said, as fresh details emerged of an audacious American raid that netted potentially crucial al-Qaida records as well as the body of the global terrorist leader. President Barack Obama is going to ground zero in New York to mark the milestone and remember the dead of 9/11.
Patience and persistence — characteristics normally attributed to al-Qaida — proved decisive in America's decade-long hunt for bin Laden, whose fate was sealed in 40 minutes of thunderous violence, years in the making.
According to the U.S. account, the assault team came away with hard drives, DVDs, documents and more that might tip U.S. intelligence to al-Qaida's operational details and perhaps lead the manhunt to the presumed next-in-command, Ayman al-Zawahri. The CIA is already going over the material.
"We're moving with great dispatch to mine that" material for insights into terrorist plots that may be in the works and for clues as to the location of senior al-Qaida officials, White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan said Tuesday on television news shows.
Obama, who approved the extraordinarily risky operation by Navy SEALs against bin Laden's Pakistan compound and witnessed its progression from the White House Situation Room, his face heavy with tension, reaped accolades from world leaders he'd kept in the dark as well as from political opponents at home.
Republican and Democratic leaders alike gave him a standing ovation at an evening White House meeting that was planned before the assault but became a celebration of it, and an occasion to step away from the fractious political climate. Obama plans to visit New York on Thursday.
"Last night's news unified our country," much as the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, did, Republican House Speaker John Boehner said earlier in the day. Obama later appealed for that unity to take root as the U.S. presses the fight against a terrorist network that is still lethal — and now vowing vengeance.
The episode was an embarrassment, at best, for Pakistani authorities as bin Laden's presence was revealed in their midst. The stealth U.S. operation played out in a city with a strong Pakistani military presence and without notice from Washington. Questions persisted in the administration and grew in Congress about whether some elements of Pakistan's security apparatus might have been in collusion with al-Qaida in letting bin Laden hide in Abbottabad.
Brennan asked the question on Tuesday that was reverberating around the world: "How did Osama bin Laden stay at that compound for six years or so and be undetected?"
"We have many, many questions about this," he said. "And I know Pakistani officials do as well." Brennan said Pakistani officials were trying to determine "whether there were individuals within the Pakistani government or military intelligence services who were knowledgeable."
In an essay published Monday by The Washington Post, Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari denied suggestions his country's security forces may have sheltered bin Laden, and said their cooperation with the United States helped pinpoint bin Laden.
As Americans rejoiced, they worried, too, that terrorists would be newly motivated to lash out. In their wounded rage, al-Qaida ideologues fed that concern. "By God, we will avenge the killing of the Sheik of Islam," one prominent al-Qaida commentator vowed. "Those who wish that jihad has ended or weakened, I tell them: Let us wait a little bit."
In that vein, U.S. officials warned that bin Laden's death was likely to encourage attacks from "homegrown violent extremists" even if al-Qaida is not prepared to respond in a coordinated fashion now.
The administration weighed whether to release photos of bin Laden's corpse and video of his swift burial at sea. Officials were reluctant to inflame Islamic sentiment by showing graphic images of the body. But they were also eager to address the mythology already building in Pakistan and beyond that bin Laden was somehow still alive.
U.S. officials say the photographic evidence shows bin Laden was shot above his left eye, blowing away part of his skull.
He was also shot in the chest, they said. This, near the end of a frenzied firefight in a high-walled Pakistani compound where helicopter-borne U.S. forces found 23 children, nine women, a bin Laden courier who had unwittingly led the U.S. to its target, a son of bin Laden who was also slain, and more.
Bin Laden had lived at the fortified compound for six years, officials said, putting him far from the lawless and harsh Pakistani frontier where he had been assumed to be hiding out.
The only information about what occurred inside the compound has come from American officials, much of it provided under condition of anonymity.
They said SEALs dropped down ropes from helicopters, killed bin Laden aides and made their way to the main building. Obama and his national security team monitored the strike, watching and listening nervously and in near silence from the Situation Room as it all unfolded.
"The minutes passed like days," John Brennan said.
U.S. officials said the information that ultimately led to bin Laden's capture originally came from detainees held in secret CIA prison sites in Eastern Europe. There, agency interrogators were told of an alias used by a courier whom bin Laden particularly trusted.
It took four long years to learn the man's real name, then years more before investigators got a big break in the case, these officials said. Sometime in mid-2010, the man was overheard using a phone by intelligence officials, who then were able to locate his residence — the specially constructed $1 million compound with walls as high as 18 feet topped with barbed wire.
U.S. counterterrorism officials considered bombing the place, an option that was discarded by the White House as too risky, particularly if it turned out bin Laden was not there.
Instead, Obama signed an order on Friday for the team of SEALs to chopper onto the compound under the cover of darkness.
In addition to bin Laden, one of his sons, Khalid, was killed in the raid, Brennan said. Bin Laden's wife was shot in the calf but survived, a U.S. official said. Also killed were the courier, another al-Qaida facilitator and an unidentified woman, officials said.
Some people found at the compound were left behind when the SEALs withdrew and were turned over to Pakistani authorities who quickly took over control of the site, officials said. They identified the trusted courier as Kuwaiti-born Sheikh Abu Ahmed, who had been known under the name Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti.
Within 40 minutes, the operation was over, and the SEALs flew out — minus one helicopter, which had malfunctioned and had to be destroyed. Bin Laden's remains were flown to the USS Carl Vinson, then lowered into the North Arabian Sea.
Bin Laden's death came 15 years after he declared war on the United States. Al-Qaida was also blamed for the 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa that killed 224 people and the 2000 attack on the USS Cole that killed 17 American sailors in Yemen, as well as countless other plots, some successful and some foiled.
US holds photos of slain bin Laden, weighs release
By ADAM GOLDMAN and KIMBERLY DOZIER, Associated Press – 47 mins ago
WASHINGTON – Still-secret photos of the dead Osama bin Laden show a precision kill shot above his left eye, a U.S. official said, as fresh details emerged of an audacious American raid that netted potentially crucial al-Qaida records as well as the body of the global terrorist leader. President Barack Obama is going to ground zero in New York to mark the milestone and remember the dead of 9/11.
Patience and persistence — characteristics normally attributed to al-Qaida — proved decisive in America's decade-long hunt for bin Laden, whose fate was sealed in 40 minutes of thunderous violence, years in the making.
According to the U.S. account, the assault team came away with hard drives, DVDs, documents and more that might tip U.S. intelligence to al-Qaida's operational details and perhaps lead the manhunt to the presumed next-in-command, Ayman al-Zawahri. The CIA is already going over the material.
"We're moving with great dispatch to mine that" material for insights into terrorist plots that may be in the works and for clues as to the location of senior al-Qaida officials, White House counterterrorism adviser John Brennan said Tuesday on television news shows.
Obama, who approved the extraordinarily risky operation by Navy SEALs against bin Laden's Pakistan compound and witnessed its progression from the White House Situation Room, his face heavy with tension, reaped accolades from world leaders he'd kept in the dark as well as from political opponents at home.
Republican and Democratic leaders alike gave him a standing ovation at an evening White House meeting that was planned before the assault but became a celebration of it, and an occasion to step away from the fractious political climate. Obama plans to visit New York on Thursday.
"Last night's news unified our country," much as the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, did, Republican House Speaker John Boehner said earlier in the day. Obama later appealed for that unity to take root as the U.S. presses the fight against a terrorist network that is still lethal — and now vowing vengeance.
The episode was an embarrassment, at best, for Pakistani authorities as bin Laden's presence was revealed in their midst. The stealth U.S. operation played out in a city with a strong Pakistani military presence and without notice from Washington. Questions persisted in the administration and grew in Congress about whether some elements of Pakistan's security apparatus might have been in collusion with al-Qaida in letting bin Laden hide in Abbottabad.
Brennan asked the question on Tuesday that was reverberating around the world: "How did Osama bin Laden stay at that compound for six years or so and be undetected?"
"We have many, many questions about this," he said. "And I know Pakistani officials do as well." Brennan said Pakistani officials were trying to determine "whether there were individuals within the Pakistani government or military intelligence services who were knowledgeable."
In an essay published Monday by The Washington Post, Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari denied suggestions his country's security forces may have sheltered bin Laden, and said their cooperation with the United States helped pinpoint bin Laden.
As Americans rejoiced, they worried, too, that terrorists would be newly motivated to lash out. In their wounded rage, al-Qaida ideologues fed that concern. "By God, we will avenge the killing of the Sheik of Islam," one prominent al-Qaida commentator vowed. "Those who wish that jihad has ended or weakened, I tell them: Let us wait a little bit."
In that vein, U.S. officials warned that bin Laden's death was likely to encourage attacks from "homegrown violent extremists" even if al-Qaida is not prepared to respond in a coordinated fashion now.
The administration weighed whether to release photos of bin Laden's corpse and video of his swift burial at sea. Officials were reluctant to inflame Islamic sentiment by showing graphic images of the body. But they were also eager to address the mythology already building in Pakistan and beyond that bin Laden was somehow still alive.
U.S. officials say the photographic evidence shows bin Laden was shot above his left eye, blowing away part of his skull.
He was also shot in the chest, they said. This, near the end of a frenzied firefight in a high-walled Pakistani compound where helicopter-borne U.S. forces found 23 children, nine women, a bin Laden courier who had unwittingly led the U.S. to its target, a son of bin Laden who was also slain, and more.
Bin Laden had lived at the fortified compound for six years, officials said, putting him far from the lawless and harsh Pakistani frontier where he had been assumed to be hiding out.
The only information about what occurred inside the compound has come from American officials, much of it provided under condition of anonymity.
They said SEALs dropped down ropes from helicopters, killed bin Laden aides and made their way to the main building. Obama and his national security team monitored the strike, watching and listening nervously and in near silence from the Situation Room as it all unfolded.
"The minutes passed like days," John Brennan said.
U.S. officials said the information that ultimately led to bin Laden's capture originally came from detainees held in secret CIA prison sites in Eastern Europe. There, agency interrogators were told of an alias used by a courier whom bin Laden particularly trusted.
It took four long years to learn the man's real name, then years more before investigators got a big break in the case, these officials said. Sometime in mid-2010, the man was overheard using a phone by intelligence officials, who then were able to locate his residence — the specially constructed $1 million compound with walls as high as 18 feet topped with barbed wire.
U.S. counterterrorism officials considered bombing the place, an option that was discarded by the White House as too risky, particularly if it turned out bin Laden was not there.
Instead, Obama signed an order on Friday for the team of SEALs to chopper onto the compound under the cover of darkness.
In addition to bin Laden, one of his sons, Khalid, was killed in the raid, Brennan said. Bin Laden's wife was shot in the calf but survived, a U.S. official said. Also killed were the courier, another al-Qaida facilitator and an unidentified woman, officials said.
Some people found at the compound were left behind when the SEALs withdrew and were turned over to Pakistani authorities who quickly took over control of the site, officials said. They identified the trusted courier as Kuwaiti-born Sheikh Abu Ahmed, who had been known under the name Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti.
Within 40 minutes, the operation was over, and the SEALs flew out — minus one helicopter, which had malfunctioned and had to be destroyed. Bin Laden's remains were flown to the USS Carl Vinson, then lowered into the North Arabian Sea.
Bin Laden's death came 15 years after he declared war on the United States. Al-Qaida was also blamed for the 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa that killed 224 people and the 2000 attack on the USS Cole that killed 17 American sailors in Yemen, as well as countless other plots, some successful and some foiled.
I unapologetically lean right gentlemen and posts that do likewise are about as popular here as sand in the vaseline jar. There is precious little room on music related boards for the conservative voice so I'll be taking mine and moving on. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, right?
I, too, felt that the initial announcement was more "campaign-like" than the situation warranted. In later statements, more emphasis was given to the bravery of the SEAL team who actually conducted the operation.
Gavin, if you;re unapologetically right-leaning, then don't let a single comment be sufficient to have you pull up stakes and leave.
This thread is to discuss the operation by US forces that resulted in the death of Usama Bin Laden. Let's not turn this into a political debate, since we all know where that will lead.
Lee
Gavin, if you;re unapologetically right-leaning, then don't let a single comment be sufficient to have you pull up stakes and leave.
This thread is to discuss the operation by US forces that resulted in the death of Usama Bin Laden. Let's not turn this into a political debate, since we all know where that will lead.
Lee
For those who worry about the cost of violating Pakistan's national sovereignty, think back to the late 90's when Clinton had chances to take bin Laden out and chose not to because it would have required flying over foreign territory and carrying out military operations on foreign soil. And the cost of his decision was...
There's an interesting take on this subject in an article by Leila Hudson, a professor at the University of Arizona. The article is at the Al Jazeera web site of all places. It's an interesting read though, different from what's going around in the mainstream press. Here's an excerpt:
Warning: There's some major crackpots posting in the comments section - common for the Al Jazeera site.
Warning: There's some major crackpots posting in the comments section - common for the Al Jazeera site.
Lean right all you like, my friend. I'm unapologetically centrist and consider Rush and those like him, right and left, a rot in the political system. No need to leave, though. We can simply disagree.
Tim
So we've been watching these developments since Sunday, and a few issues/questions continue to make me skeptical:
- Politico claims the WH is retracting statements that Bin Laden used a woman as a shield
- Politico claims the WH is retracting statements that Bin Laden had a weapon
- Politico and others claim that bin Laden was killed late in the event which lasted ~40 mins
- How do we know for sure bin Laden did not kill himself? There can never be proof unless they release the video showing the exact moment he's killed
- If he was killed after a long battle, could he have booby-trapped his computers in the meantime, thus diminishing the value of the raid?
- It is likely the house had secret places to hide computers and other data - did the US forces have enough time to search thoroughly? Or are they relying on Pakistan to complete this part of the mission?
- It is unlikely he was alone with his wife in his bedroom when they "got" him, as ABCnews and others reported, especially if they got to him long after the shooting began. Reason being that even if he were there and resisted by shooting, they could still injure him and take him alive, as he would have been worth more alive than dead (a little sodium pentothal would spew out some interesting details). Another reason is that he could have tried to flee. And even if he was there, he could have taken his own life as he had promised.
- One is not cured of kidney failure, so where's his kidney dilation machine?
- What's the US's motivation to really bury the body at sea and not take it back to the US or any other place? Any sophisticated state would be able to recover the corpse from the sea if they wanted to... Why wouldn't the US blow up the body entirely?
I would bet a lot that the military still has the body and has no intention of discarding it at sea, they just don't want the fallout or the demands for its enshrinement, they need to keep it for a while at least.
They will probably just give latitude and longitude and let the faithful fruitlessly search for it and monitor them.
Meanwhile, the body is in Area 51 with the UFO and the aliens or its equivalent.
The military would want to conduct a full, complete autopsy with tissue samples, toxicology, etc. etc. and any doctor knows that requires time involving days, weeks, even months, and Osama will be parted out in bottles and jars somewhere for record keeping purposes, probably in a manner that violates Muslim codes.
They will probably just give latitude and longitude and let the faithful fruitlessly search for it and monitor them.
Meanwhile, the body is in Area 51 with the UFO and the aliens or its equivalent.
The military would want to conduct a full, complete autopsy with tissue samples, toxicology, etc. etc. and any doctor knows that requires time involving days, weeks, even months, and Osama will be parted out in bottles and jars somewhere for record keeping purposes, probably in a manner that violates Muslim codes.
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If I were in the Pakistani government, I would be pretty upset about it too, but they're just going to have to get over it. I shouldn't have been too surprised. The US wanted Bin Laden so badly they wouldn't consider any risk whatsoever to taking him out of the equation. His burial seems to have been hasty, but I expect the scenario must have been debated and agreed a long time ago ("What happens when we actually DO catch him...?") The risks may have been that he got tipped-off, that he could have escaped, that he become a martyr, endless arguments about how and where he was buried....
Now we just need the US and Pakistan to get over their differences. Pakistan didn't do enough to give confidence that they're pulling their weight in the war on terrorism, and could be trusted to support such an operation in a positve way. They only have themselves to blame.
Nick
Just a observation, The Bin Laden family has income of 5 billion a year, they have ties both political and financial throughout the world. Osama needed prescription grade medicine everyday for the last 10 years atleast. Was he rat holed up in Tora Bora for the last upteen years? If you beleive that load of crap, I have a JVC radio that sounds as good as my main system.
What our President did was not only gutsy,it was truly patriotic and faithful to his sworn duty as a American President.
No bullshit here, there are many unhappy people, but WTF can they say? and for those that question the President's decision,what do you say to the "dead" Americans throughout the world including those killed on 9/11,our embassies, and troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Somtimes those that can see clearly,do things that other men will not, Hero to the doers and call the others for what they are,cowards.
What our President did was not only gutsy,it was truly patriotic and faithful to his sworn duty as a American President.
No bullshit here, there are many unhappy people, but WTF can they say? and for those that question the President's decision,what do you say to the "dead" Americans throughout the world including those killed on 9/11,our embassies, and troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Somtimes those that can see clearly,do things that other men will not, Hero to the doers and call the others for what they are,cowards.
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