The story is taking an interesting twist today, with the WH's admission that he was unarmed but still "resisted". This sounds like he made a run for it, and got it in the chest first, then in the head to be sure.
Osama Bin Laden has been killed
- Thread starter RogerD
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Let's hope the media is responsible enough not to go looking for and disseminating information on the members on the ground. I certainly wouldn't put it past them to put lives in danger for 15 minutes of fame.
Whatever...They made the right decision.
As for the conspiracy theories, if any such key members of our government would play such games, it would eventually come out and be symptomatic of a rot that I (perhaps naively) just don't think is possible.
Really, the part of the world that bin Laden thinks he represented has undergone tremendous change. Figuratively, he and what he stood for died over the past few months.
Did they? The WH said his "wife" made a move towards the SEALs and they shot her in the leg; why wouldn't they do the same with bin Laden and get more info out of him, and show the world he's captured? On this very question, an ex-SEAL on CNN tonight made a reference to Murphy's Law, as if they wouldn't give Murphy's Law a chance. Hmmm... If we had a body we would be able to tell a lot by a simple forensic examination, but we don't, do we...
Just a lot of holes and unanswered questions.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Personally I don't believe they were there to bring him back alive. Can you imagine the potential for zealots capturing innocent hostages to use to trade for Bin Laden's release
Yes. And I agree. This is a messy business and this is the least messy way. It is better to be over and done with it. A job well done all around.
One thing that the SEALS must have had on their mind was the possibility of a "dead man switch" and booby traps. But looks like maybe there were none. Bin Laden must have known that if and when he was found there wasn't going to be a lot of forgiveness. I'm impressed he survived as long as he did, but I always thought he would be found in Paris. Hell, that's where I would have gone.
My sentiments too. That was what happened when The Shah of Iran went to the US after his fall from power and the hostages were taken by militants in Teheran demanding the return of the Shah for trial.
And if BL was captured, will he be accorded legal rights to any trial? If so, that would spin off into more controversy and possible more media points for BL.
They don't even have a martyr,no body,no grave,the smartest thing this country has done in a while. Only a select few were privy to the plan,we didn't tell Britian or Nato,nobody,that tells you how sensitve this was to the Saudi's and other nations.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I wonder what the Pakistani government will do with those captured and turned over to them like Bin Laid to Rest's wife?
This is what the WH also said, but the bullet in the chest doesn't tell me there was any obvious concern, unless he got it long after being shot in the head and was physically examined first - we don't know yet the exact firing sequence, though CNN TV (John King) keeps talking about being shot in the chest first. MSNBC and others were referring to the killing as "assassination" yesterday, although this assumes the SEALs had immediate reasonable doubt he was a danger to them; we don't know what they thought, yet.
So because of all these unanswered questions (and as expected) all kinds of eye brows are being raised by the international community today - see Reuters:
Now contrast this against the legality of intentionally or un-intentionally harboring a terrorist by a state (Pakistan) and another state's right (US) to protect its interests, though by clearly breaking international law when it comes to at least invasion of a state's sovereign space on which war has not been declared nor has it been notified... What are the rules of engagement in that case, while also considering how dangerous bin Laden was and how valuable to ALL collecting information from his computers is?
NYTimes has this today:
Well, easy to say so... Just raising more questions and issues...
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I thought there was one season of 24 where this case of eliminating a terrorist and some protocol or legality was raised. It's a good thing I'm a bit familiar already with these terms, and situations. In one episode, Jack Bauer accidentally killed a Chinese personel inside the residence of the Chinese ambassador, raising questions of national security vs protocol. Well, we now know these things do happen.
Seems pretty clear that Osama was a guest of the Pakistani military/intelligence under a kind of quasi "house arrest".
Osama was not a gritty guerrilla, he was a psychopathic rich kid with a messiah complex. He would think it perfectly normal that he live in comfort while his followers and even family members perished in agony.
For whatever social, political or religious reasons, the Pakistanis regarded Osama as a kind of asset, if for no other reason than extorting further billions from the West in guise of anti-terrorism.
I still think that his body is too informative to merely abandon. It would indicate his state of health, the medicine and medical assistance he might have been receiving, the state of his nutrition. The deceptions of the Pakistanis would be apparent if Osama had any kind of sophisticated medical treatments. Also, for record keeping purposes, the military would want him extensively examined and x-rayed with ongoing available DNA and tissue samples. Different teams of doctors would want to examine him. He is probably in a secure lab at Langley or Walter Reed.
Osama was not a gritty guerrilla, he was a psychopathic rich kid with a messiah complex. He would think it perfectly normal that he live in comfort while his followers and even family members perished in agony.
For whatever social, political or religious reasons, the Pakistanis regarded Osama as a kind of asset, if for no other reason than extorting further billions from the West in guise of anti-terrorism.
I still think that his body is too informative to merely abandon. It would indicate his state of health, the medicine and medical assistance he might have been receiving, the state of his nutrition. The deceptions of the Pakistanis would be apparent if Osama had any kind of sophisticated medical treatments. Also, for record keeping purposes, the military would want him extensively examined and x-rayed with ongoing available DNA and tissue samples. Different teams of doctors would want to examine him. He is probably in a secure lab at Langley or Walter Reed.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I doubt if he was under house arrest if he had coins and cash sewed into his clothes with two telephone numbers. I wonder who answers the phone when the CIA calls those numbers
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Obama Won't Release Photos-From Associated Press
AP source: bin Laden thought going for a weapon
WASHINGTON — U.S. officials tell The Associated Press that the Navy SEALs who stormed Osama bin Laden's compound shot and killed him after they saw him appear to lunge for a weapon.
The officials, who were briefed on the operation, say several weapons were found in the room where the terror chief died, including AK-47s and personal side arms.
The officials also say a U.S. commando grabbed a woman who charged toward the group. The fear, the officials say, is that she might have been wearing a suicide vest. The Navy SEAL pulled the woman away from his fellow SEALs.
The officials further say the two dozen SEALs involved in the operation are back at their home base outside Virginia Beach, Va., and that the extensive debriefing they underwent is complete.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
President Barack Obama said Wednesday he's decided not to release death photos of terrorist Osama bin Laden because their graphic nature could incite violence and create national security risks for the United States.
AP: CIA Examines Intel from bin Laden Hideout
"There's no doubt we killed Osama bin Laden," the president said in an interview with CBS News, and there was no need to release the photographs or gloat. "There's no need to spike the football," he said.
The president said that for anyone who doesn't believe bin Laden is dead, "we don't think that a photograph in and of itself is going to make any difference."
"There are going to be some folks who deny it. The fact of the matter is you won't see bin Laden walking on this earth again," said Obama.
The president made his comments in an interview Wednesday with CBS' "60 Minutes". Presidential spokesman Jay Carney read the president's quotes to reporters in the White House briefing room, ahead of the program's airing.
Photos taken by the Navy SEAL raiders show bin Laden shot in the head, numerous officials have said. CIA Director Leon Panetta said Tuesday he expected at least one photo to be released. Asked about that, Carney said the decision had not been made at that time.
But Carney also said the president never doubted his position on not releasing the photos. Obama said in the interview, "It is important for us to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence."
"I think that, given the graphic nature of these photos, it would create some national security risk," he said.
Carney said there would not be images released of bin Laden's burial at sea, either.
Some family members of those who died in the 9/11 terror attacks thought it important to document bin Laden's death, as did some skeptics in the Arab world who doubted his demise in the absence of convincing evidence. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said in a statement that Obama's decision was a mistake.
"The whole purpose of sending our soldiers into the compound, rather than an aerial bombardment, was to obtain indisputable proof of bin Laden's death," Graham said. "I know bin Laden is dead. But the best way to protect and defend our interests overseas is to prove that fact to the rest of the world."
But many other lawmakers and others expressed concerns that the photographic images could be seen as a "trophy" that would inflame U.S. critics and make it harder for members of the American military deployed overseas to do their jobs.
Obama's decision on the photos came a day ahead of his planned visit to ground zero in New York City to lay a wreath and visit with 9/11 families and first responders.
It also came after a revised description of the circumstances of bin Laden's death. After initially saying the terrorist was armed or even firing, the White House said Tuesday that bin Laden was unarmed, raising questions about the basis for his killing.
Attorney General Eric Holder, in an appearance on Capitol Hill, sought to underscore the legality of the shooting.
"Let me make something very clear: The operation in which Osama bin Laden was killed was lawful," Holder told senators Wednesday. The raid "was justified as an action of national self-defense" against "a lawful military target," he said.
Carney said that the SEAL team that raided the compound where bin Laden was living in Abbottabad, Pakistan, had the authority to kill him unless he offered to surrender, in which case the team was required to accept the surrender.
"Consistent with the laws of war, bin Laden's surrender would have been accepted if feasible," said Carney. Officials have said bin Laden resisted, though they have not offered further details.
Meanwhile, the SEALS involved in the daring raid are in the Washington area for debriefing, and U.S. officials have begun to comb through the intelligence trove of computer files, flash drives, DVDs and documents that the commandos hauled out of the terrorist's hideaway.
Bin Laden had about 500 euros sewn into his clothes when he was killed and had phone numbers with him when he was killed, U.S. officials said, a possible indication that the terrorist mastermind was ready to flee his compound on short notice.
Wednesday was not the first time Obama has had to make a consequential decision about releasing photos connected with U.S. troop actions. In 2009 he sought to block the court-ordered release of photos of U.S. troops abusing prisoners in Iraq, a reversal of position that he explained by saying the pictures could inflame anti-American opinion and endanger U.S. forces in Iraq an Afghanistan.
AP source: bin Laden thought going for a weapon
WASHINGTON — U.S. officials tell The Associated Press that the Navy SEALs who stormed Osama bin Laden's compound shot and killed him after they saw him appear to lunge for a weapon.
The officials, who were briefed on the operation, say several weapons were found in the room where the terror chief died, including AK-47s and personal side arms.
The officials also say a U.S. commando grabbed a woman who charged toward the group. The fear, the officials say, is that she might have been wearing a suicide vest. The Navy SEAL pulled the woman away from his fellow SEALs.
The officials further say the two dozen SEALs involved in the operation are back at their home base outside Virginia Beach, Va., and that the extensive debriefing they underwent is complete.
THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.
President Barack Obama said Wednesday he's decided not to release death photos of terrorist Osama bin Laden because their graphic nature could incite violence and create national security risks for the United States.
AP: CIA Examines Intel from bin Laden Hideout
"There's no doubt we killed Osama bin Laden," the president said in an interview with CBS News, and there was no need to release the photographs or gloat. "There's no need to spike the football," he said.
The president said that for anyone who doesn't believe bin Laden is dead, "we don't think that a photograph in and of itself is going to make any difference."
"There are going to be some folks who deny it. The fact of the matter is you won't see bin Laden walking on this earth again," said Obama.
The president made his comments in an interview Wednesday with CBS' "60 Minutes". Presidential spokesman Jay Carney read the president's quotes to reporters in the White House briefing room, ahead of the program's airing.
Photos taken by the Navy SEAL raiders show bin Laden shot in the head, numerous officials have said. CIA Director Leon Panetta said Tuesday he expected at least one photo to be released. Asked about that, Carney said the decision had not been made at that time.
But Carney also said the president never doubted his position on not releasing the photos. Obama said in the interview, "It is important for us to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence."
"I think that, given the graphic nature of these photos, it would create some national security risk," he said.
Carney said there would not be images released of bin Laden's burial at sea, either.
Some family members of those who died in the 9/11 terror attacks thought it important to document bin Laden's death, as did some skeptics in the Arab world who doubted his demise in the absence of convincing evidence. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said in a statement that Obama's decision was a mistake.
"The whole purpose of sending our soldiers into the compound, rather than an aerial bombardment, was to obtain indisputable proof of bin Laden's death," Graham said. "I know bin Laden is dead. But the best way to protect and defend our interests overseas is to prove that fact to the rest of the world."
But many other lawmakers and others expressed concerns that the photographic images could be seen as a "trophy" that would inflame U.S. critics and make it harder for members of the American military deployed overseas to do their jobs.
Obama's decision on the photos came a day ahead of his planned visit to ground zero in New York City to lay a wreath and visit with 9/11 families and first responders.
It also came after a revised description of the circumstances of bin Laden's death. After initially saying the terrorist was armed or even firing, the White House said Tuesday that bin Laden was unarmed, raising questions about the basis for his killing.
Attorney General Eric Holder, in an appearance on Capitol Hill, sought to underscore the legality of the shooting.
"Let me make something very clear: The operation in which Osama bin Laden was killed was lawful," Holder told senators Wednesday. The raid "was justified as an action of national self-defense" against "a lawful military target," he said.
Carney said that the SEAL team that raided the compound where bin Laden was living in Abbottabad, Pakistan, had the authority to kill him unless he offered to surrender, in which case the team was required to accept the surrender.
"Consistent with the laws of war, bin Laden's surrender would have been accepted if feasible," said Carney. Officials have said bin Laden resisted, though they have not offered further details.
Meanwhile, the SEALS involved in the daring raid are in the Washington area for debriefing, and U.S. officials have begun to comb through the intelligence trove of computer files, flash drives, DVDs and documents that the commandos hauled out of the terrorist's hideaway.
Bin Laden had about 500 euros sewn into his clothes when he was killed and had phone numbers with him when he was killed, U.S. officials said, a possible indication that the terrorist mastermind was ready to flee his compound on short notice.
Wednesday was not the first time Obama has had to make a consequential decision about releasing photos connected with U.S. troop actions. In 2009 he sought to block the court-ordered release of photos of U.S. troops abusing prisoners in Iraq, a reversal of position that he explained by saying the pictures could inflame anti-American opinion and endanger U.S. forces in Iraq an Afghanistan.
I happened to find another tidbit in this AP news article on Yahoo.
Hmm, if he wasn't there to visit Bin Laden, what was he doing? Was he visiting the Abbottabad Disney World?
Hmm, if he wasn't there to visit Bin Laden, what was he doing? Was he visiting the Abbottabad Disney World?
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