Preamp to get fleshed out images and good transients & bass?

MadFloyd

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May 30, 2010
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I'm contemplating my next preamp to mate with Wilson Sashas that are being driven by Lamm M1.2 Reference (hybrid) monoblocks.

Source is mostly vinyl (TW Acustic Raven One/Tri-planar/Dynavector XV-1s into Tron Seven phono stage).

Digital source is Berkeley Alpha DAC and when I use this it sounds best direct to the amps. Sounds terribly muddy and univolving through a preamp imo.

I want the best of both worlds:

1) flesh on the bone so instruments have a realistic size and enough weight to sound realistic.

2) Clean, non-distorted sound with transients that aren't softened and tight articulate bass.

I switch between two preamps for the reasons above (tube and solid state). When I start to miss one of the characters described, I switch. I enjoy both but would love to have just one preamp.

Does anyone else wrestle with this? Perhaps a true solution involves changing out more equipment than a preamp; I'm hoping not, but unsure.
 
The fastest, cleanest preamp I've heard is surely the DarTZeel NHB-18NS. While I don't know your phono stage, the DarTZeel comes with a fairly decent one onboard, that's worth trying too.


alexandre
 
I am afraid to mention CAT again , it must get boring , solid state like bass control and the rest is even better , at least the one i have .
I doubt the ultimate mk2 has enough low mc gain , you might need a step up transformer ( but i read you have already a phono amp ), it does have little phono noise but dont all tubes have that a little , the line is very quit.
I havent heard the dart yet .
Another excellent tube (combo) is zanden 3000 (/phono 1200) but thats more expensive, but that is triode magic stuff .
Unfortunately i dont have much exposure to lamm and conrad johnson, probably due to the political high end world:D
 
I'm contemplating my next preamp to mate with Wilson Sashas that are being driven by Lamm M1.2 Reference (hybrid) monoblocks.

Source is mostly vinyl (TW Acustic Raven One/Tri-planar/Dynavector XV-1s into Tron Seven phono stage).

Digital source is Berkeley Alpha DAC and when I use this it sounds best direct to the amps. Sounds terribly muddy and univolving through a preamp imo.

I want the best of both worlds:

1) flesh on the bone so instruments have a realistic size and enough weight to sound realistic.

2) Clean, non-distorted sound with transients that aren't softened and tight articulate bass.

I switch between two preamps for the reasons above (tube and solid state). When I start to miss one of the characters described, I switch. I enjoy both but would love to have just one preamp.

Does anyone else wrestle with this? Perhaps a true solution involves changing out more equipment than a preamp; I'm hoping not, but unsure.

I don't really get your question :confused:
Do you want a linestage to be put between your phono and power amps only (thus continuing to go directly from the BADA to the Lamms), or you're looking for a preamp that is not going to let you regret you placed something on your digital chain?
 
I don't really get your question :confused:
Do you want a linestage to be put between your phono and power amps only (thus continuing to go directly from the BADA to the Lamms), or you're looking for a preamp that is not going to let you regret you placed something on your digital chain?

I guess a phono stage that sounds amazing direct to an amp would be an option, but mostly I'm looking for good preamp recommendations. I've tried a lot.

Currently using a Pass XP-10 and a Lamm L2 Ref.
 
I know, but with no auditioning experience, the Aesthetix Io, the Manley Steelhead and the Musical Surroundings Supernova as phonostages with integrated volume control.
Then, I don't know if they may match your tastes, but I've enjoyed systems where the VTL 7.5 and the Spectral DMC-30SS were playing.
 
you could go for the gusto and try Valdimir's LL1 Signature preamp. IMO there just isn't a better preamp made

Thanks, Steve. I can't help but imagine it would still have a tube like quality to the bass and softened transients, but it mostly a moot point as that sucker is out of my price league.

I would love to hear it though. I'm sure it's amazing nonetheless. Heck, my L2 Ref is amazing. I've never heard better when it comes to playing classic rock vinyl. It's just not everything I want it to be.
 
Floyd I'm using the L2 with the ML2. I changed phono stages recently with dramatic results (went from a Steelhead, which sounded compressed, to the Allnic H3000).I don't have experience with the Tron, have heard it courtesy of Jeff at HighWater in an all-Tron system and would assume it is a better than 'not bad' phono stage. I'm wondering if the problem is with your room.
Granted, my system is different (Avantgarde horns) and i'm sure my listening bias is not yours, but the L2 is really delivering and there is a synergy with the Lamm amps. There is no shortage of 'flesh' on the images and horns can really make that hard to do. I'm sure there are other line stages or preamps, but it is kinda hard to assess what you think is wrong with the sound of your system in the ether. I am confident that my next step is a better room, to allow the bass to work effectively- I think that is the biggest limitation to my system, not an improvement in gear. So maybe you have some work to do in the room first before you start throwing money at the gear? If you think you are missing out on the bass, that would be where i would start.
 
Thanks, Steve. I can't help but imagine it would still have a tube like quality to the bass and softened transients, but it mostly a moot point as that sucker is out of my price league.

I would love to hear it though. I'm sure it's amazing nonetheless. Heck, my L2 Ref is amazing. I've never heard better when it comes to playing classic rock vinyl. It's just not everything I want it to be.

What do you wish it had more of? Perhaps we can start there and make some recommendations. Lamm and Wilson are one great combination.
 
What do you wish it had more of? Perhaps we can start there and make some recommendations. Lamm and Wilson are one great combination.

That was precisely my point.IMO the best sound "I" have heard with Wilson (and I have owned 8 different pair of Wilson speakers) and I have had everything from 3-4 different Krell amps, ARC Ref 600 Mk lll, Lamm ML2.1 and now Lamm ML3/LL1 Signature, is Lamm...for my ears. But Lamm preamps are designed by Vlad to work best with his amps and you have a hybrid which will do just fine.
 
I have very good results using any of my Spectral preamps or linestages with Lamm M1.2.

I used to have a system composed of Spectral DMC 20, Lamm M 1.1 and Watt/Puppy 5 with the Brisson puppy tails.
 
Also an L2 and M1.2 owner. Heck also a TW AC 3 , XV1s and t owner. I got a big boost in performance when I changed my LP2 suts from the stock 1:9 to the optional 1:32. If you prefer the BADA direct, I suggest you try feeding the L2 via the tape inputs.

Another preamp that works well with my M1.2s and M2.2s is the Valvet Soulshine loaded with NOS Tele 802s and the stock JJ ecc99s.
 
I am going to try the Pass XP-30.

The real puzzler is that the L2 Ref seems to be very colored. I know I have replaced one tube in there with a NOS (forget which one) but when playing through the Lamm I cannot identify orchestral instruments very easily. All instruments seem to blur together, When I play the same LP through the XP-10 I can identify instrument combos (e.g. clarinet with bassoon) and I hear so much more detail and tonally everything is spot on. It's a much smaller soundstage of course. The Lamm blooms everything up beautifully such that for casual listening (my system is in a family room that opens into the rest of the main floor) it is unsurpassed. But if I want tonal accuracy and instrument delineation it doesn't do the job - at least not with my current gear and room. It might the case of too many tubes? (Tron Seven is a tubed phono stage).
 
Floyd I'm using the L2 with the ML2. I changed phono stages recently with dramatic results (went from a Steelhead, which sounded compressed, to the Allnic H3000).I don't have experience with the Tron, have heard it courtesy of Jeff at HighWater in an all-Tron system and would assume it is a better than 'not bad' phono stage.

I keep hearing that the Tron Seven is one of the best phono stages out there. Of all the ones I've tried, it has been miles ahead (including the Steelhead which was dark and devoid of any upper frequency detail). I see you're using an Allnic, I'll check that out.
 

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