QSA : My take on their expensive products
- Thread starter CKKeung
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As far as I know, no audiophile company manufactures a legal UK 13A mains fuse (they are ceramic filled with silica). The regulations, BS1362:1973 are very complex. It is simply too expensive to get them certified. They are made in their tens of millions to very tight tolerances, mostly by Chinese companies. There are probably billions of them in use in the UK. The audiophile 13A fuses that are sold generally have gold-plated connectors.
If QSA change the performance, they are likely illegal. UK regulations require safety fuses to display the manufacturer, the BS1362 certification and the rating. You won't find this on QSA fuses, so the relabelling is most likely illegal.
Not a legal opinion, but I have checked the Regulations and just about everyone in the UK knows this.
In the UK wall receptacles, plugs and plug fuses are all regulated by law for reasons of fire safety. The plug into the wall will have a 13A fuse, unless you want to invalidate your home insurance.
I have heard of people buying US spec power distributors and using US unfused plugs. A waste of time as 13A fuses are massively over specified for components. The 13A rating is specified to prevent a 2.5mm mains flex from overheating.
Using a SDFB on my amplifier would invalidate the warranty, so no thanks. I did try a Synergistic fuse in a streamer once, made no difference at all. My streamer and DAC have the manufacturer installed fuses. They are 2A and massively over specified, 0.2A would probably be fine.
The SDFB marketing about fuses heating up and increasing resistance is untrue. I told the guy, Mark, who sells them. He effectively agreed. He suggested they improve things for other reasons. I've quoted it before somewhere.
On the few occasions I've seen a fuse thread on a UK forum it quickly turns into an abuse-fest and general agreement that people who so indulge are just stupid or need psychiatric help.
how much for a fuse,
just been reading this article about, Quantum Science fuses, starting at $28, a unit up to $2844, crazy money, what they should do is take them apart to see the difference's, if any, http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/quantum-science-audio-series-fuses/ does anyone on here use such fuses and are...
pinkfishmedia.net
If I was interested in the impact of eliminating the fuse in my streamer or DAC I'd just cut a piece of 5x20 mm copper rod and put it in the fuse socket. I'm just not interested. The SDFB is not sold in the UK, so it's not really an issue.
For some people the greater cost is digging up a garden or driveway. Americans always refer to poles, may not appreciate we have a lot of underground cables. My £4,300 + VAT was the minimum charge.
This is interesting. How much isolation will a separated phase for hifi provide from the other phases?
In the same way many hifi tweaks are illegal - eg. cryo, contact enhancers perhaps even wires made of silver or gold etc. Anything that changes the original certified performance of the item for its intended use. If you follow this code many products and actions become illegal like all of the below:
fuses weren't certified with gold ends, so illegal
Like QSA, Synergistic fuses changes the performance of a fuse therefore illegal
Bypassing the fuse, illegal
I think we have to be practical about the approach to hifi tweaks - if the risk is negligible, you're willing to pay the price and you can hear an improvement in performance, perhaps it's worth stepping into the wild side..?
No doubt QSA fuses are expensive, especially the higher priced ones. Personally I would not pay for the silver or gold versions (or several levels lower!) but I say to each their comfort level of spending. They very clearly make a difference so it's worth a listen as part of the audiophile journey and experience.
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...we also have a lot of underground cable in place in the US, including services to homes. My service is underground.
Many advantages to underground runs, but it's a big country and it's not cost-effective everywhere.
We also have pole-dancing here, but not sure if that is popular in the old-country.
No doubt that the Swiss Digital Box is really good but is it legal to use within EU or in UK?
Mostly incorrect for the UK.In the same way many hifi tweaks are illegal - eg. cryo, contact enhancers perhaps even wires made of silver or gold etc. Anything that changes the original certified performance of the item for its intended use. If you follow this code many products and actions become illegal like all of the below:
fuses weren't certified with gold ends, so illegal
Like QSA, Synergistic fuses changes the performance of a fuse therefore illegal
Bypassing the fuse, illegal
I think we have to be practical about the approach to hifi tweaks - if the risk is negligible, you're willing to pay the price and you can hear an improvement in performance, perhaps it's worth stepping into the wild side..?
No doubt QSA fuses are expensive, especially the higher priced ones. Personally I would not pay for the silver or gold versions (or several levels lower!) but I say to each their comfort level of spending. They very clearly make a difference so it's worth a listen as part of the audiophile journey and experience.
Here the entire installation up to and including the wall sockets is governed by strict regulations including BS7671 18th Edition. When you do an update of refit it has to be thoroughly tested, literally everything, by a certified test engineer. There is a national database test engineers and test reports. My house, which is about 3,000 sq.ft, took 2 days to test. You should have it retested every 5 years. If you own properties and are renting them out, these 5-years certifications are legally mandatory.
If you are doing a building job that requires planning permission, the local authority will not certify the work as complete without electrical, gas and fire certificates. You will then have trouble selling the property. If there is a fire, you will likely have invalidated your insurance.
The wall socket, the wall plug and the safety fuse in the plug that goes in the wall are all covered by regulations BS1362 and BS1363. Making compliant sockets and plugs is quite easy, but making compliant fuses isn't viable on a small audiophile scale. The fuse in the plug is intended to protect the cable from catching fire. They are not intended to protect the device being powered.
What you do after that is really up to you. There are no regulations covering audiophile fuses that go in to components. You could import the SDFB if you wanted. I've used cryo treated cables, I use silver cables, I use Belden and Neotech spurs from the consumer unit, they are tested and comply. I've used a Furutech wall socket for 15 years, which is fully compliant with BS1363.
So in the UK there are lots of audiophile options, but not the 13A safety fuse in the plug in the wall.
This is from an email with the QSA distributor in the UK. He is very clear and probably entirely correct. I agree that plating the ends of 13A certified fuses probably invalidates them.
Bear in mind that a 13A UK fuse is a very high rating. They are slow blow, so would allow about 5,900w to pass for 30 minutes before blowing. That's about 3 times the maximum potential power draw of my audio system. Hence I am perfectly happy just to use one socket.
I take zero risk with power installation and use. I would consider anyone who takes any risk to be a fool. Would be curious on @Kingrex 's take on this.
It really depends on your local regulations. The UK experience is that it is very easy to make a fully compliant audiophile plug and socket and lots of us use them.
I think at some point about 10 years ago Furutech made a plug that was non-compliant and they had to withdraw it. The new ones are very popular and the product name includes "1363" because in the UK that implies they comply with the BS1363 regulations. They will be labelled BS1363 anyway, which is a requirement.
In the UK, if you plug it into the wall, that end will require a compliant plug and fuse. If you power it from a distribution block, conditioner etc., there should be no problem.
To be clear, all the law requires is that a product sold for use in the UK has to contain a compliant fused power cable. They cost about $3. I had an HP printer delivered today and it contained two cables, for the UK and EU. This is quite normal. If Vera-Fi are selling a SDFB into the UK that plugs into the wall, they are required to include a UK compliant fused mains cable.
Every product that I've bought from the USA has contained the required cable. Occasionally with a Chinese supplier it might be missing.
It doesn't mean you have to use the supplied cable. I use Puritan and Supra cables. They all have 13A compliant fuses.
I don't think any audiophile power cable has a UL or other label for use in the US or other. It's a gray area manufacturer have gone around for years. So putting a QSA fuse in a listed cable???? If you kinked a Shunyata cable and it caught fire, would insurance cover your home???? If you used a QSA fuse in a listed and labeled cord and you kinked it and it caught fire, would insurance cover you???? What if I had a non listed cable like Shunyata and a listed bussman fuse, and I kinked the cable and it caught fire?
I can't answer what a insurance company would do. But I use non listed and labeled cords myself. I take the risk.
Dang, I really thought the "I don't care" part of my post was implied. Swing and a miss on my dry British humor attempt.
I've been consulting to insurance companies on claims relating to electrical fires for over 30 years. I've had an incorrect light bulb cause $100m of damage. A coffee machine caused $50m of damage.
Most audiophile power cables are massively over specified. My hifi is fed by cable rated at 27A, I think it is about 12 or 14 AWG (AWG is not used in UK/EU). A 2.5mm mains flex is good for at least 16A to 20A, which is why Supra 2.5 LoRad is so popular. It's a very well made 3x2.5mm stranded cable by one of the world's largest cable makers.
Supra cables - HDMI cables for 8k, 4k, USB 2.0, 3.0, 3.2, Cat 8, Ethernet, DisplayPort, Digital Video, Audio, Fibre Optic, Quadrax, XL Annorum, LoRad mains power cables, Sword, Excalibur, Analogue, Digital, Speaker cables
Supra cables - HDMI cables for 8k, 4k, USB 2.0, 3.0, 3.2, Cat 8, Ethernet, DisplayPort, Digital Video, Audio, Fibre Optic, Quadrax, XL Annorum, LoRad mains power cables, Sword, Excalibur, Analogue, Digital, Speaker cables
www.supracables.co.uk
I tried a fuse in my SR 3.15A fuse in my streamer and it made no difference for me, so I moved on.
I checked the QSA guy's qualifications, trading history in Hong Kong, he's even posted videos of his fuse and cable frying process (it's on YouTube). I remember posting ages ago that applying his process to rice cookers (very popular in China) gives you better rice. I sort of lost interest at that point.
QSA got a UK distributor, who linked up exclusively with one very large online cables and accessories dealer called Futureshop. They are 10 minutes from my home and very nice people to deal with. They did major magazine and online promotion of QSA fuses and over 3 years have got about 40 or 50 user comments and some people seem to like them.
Lots of things are made to a spec, but the cost of getting it listed and labeled is prohibitive.
Have you listened to a QSA fuse in your system before? You know, proof of the pudding and all...
I believe in the UK a free trial can be arranged or some kind of money back system.
I think the main risk of using them isn't the house burning down but you might like them and have to pay for it! Actually this is sometimes the reason why I don't want to trial some of the more expensive devices and accessories.
I have 3 purple ones in my amps and they do make an audible difference. Yes, QSA fuses have been used in all kinds of unusual situations, I can't say I have tried that rice experiment, perhaps I should try and see what happens!
For rice cookers, I think their Jitter Plugs are easier to use than fuses. I have 2 of those which didn't work so well in my system. So one out is now out on loan and other one is waiting for my rice cooker...
The UK market is relatively small because we use a unique plug and socket. Notwithstanding, there is a vast range of legal and labelled audiophile products. Several of my components are powered with these audiophile cables, DIY and cost about $100. The labelling is moulded on the plug or printed on the cable. There is no incremental cost.
I have emailed the only UK retailer and suggested doing a double blind test. I know them, they are 10 minutes away, and I've been a customer of their since 2018. Let's see what they say.
In the UK we can return any standard product for no reason within (I think) 2 weeks. Not so with bespoke products. In the UK and EU there is a statutory 2-year manufacturer warranty if a product is faulty.
Many hifi dealers will do home loans. It depends if they have demo stock. I've done several home loans with a distributor/dealer 400 miles away, he pays the postage here, I pay to return. I've made several purchases, it's a good and profitable business model.
The problem with fuses is they blow. I put 2 QSA fuses in my amp and the amps did not turn on. It blew them immediately. I had the rated fuse for the device. I mentioned this in the past and was told to start oversizing the fuses. Seems odd as people say this is a Bussman fuse. Just saying.
In the USA, devices are considered an assembly. Your not allowed to cobble together parts. And my point about listing and labeling means people print what they want to print on stuff all the time. That does not mean it has actually been tested, then listed and labeled. It just means someone put something on the jacket.
You seem to have glossed over my more important point. Not a single audiophile cable is listed and labeled. Non. Yet we have loads of them in our stereo. I bet there are plenty of electronics that are not listed and labeled. There may be listings on some of the individual components inside. But has the device in total been inspected. I would assume most all amplifiers that are in the multi thousand price range have not been. Maybe McItosh. But Grypon, Dartzeel, Soulution. I bet you could look the enclosure over and not find a single listing and labeling. I doubt any of those companies have sent a amp to a testing agency to be destroyed. So if the amp caught fire, would you be covered under insurance?
2.5mm2 (about 13AWG) is the minimum specification for 13A supply and most audiophile cables will meet this. There are some smaller cables, like Supra 1.5 LoRad, a 1.5mm2 cable that is rated at 10A. Were I to use this cable, say for a streamer or DAC, I would use a 5A fuse. Here wall plug fuses are usually sold in packs (about $5 for 10 fuses) with a mix of 1A, 3A, 5A, 10A and 13A, all certified, and the appliance will state the fuse rating to be used, as determined by the thickness of the supplied cable.
So easy to check and be safe, but if you try and use 0.5mm2 bell wire with a 13A fuse for your 3,000w amplifier and it catches fire, good luck claiming on your house insurance. In the old days cables were made with insulation materials that were flammable or toxic. These are now banned.
There are laws that make it illegal to import and distribute an unsafe or illegal electrical appliance. There are various certifications and products list what they comply with. This is the main reason for buying from a UK supplier and not from an overseas distance seller.
In the UK/EU the 2-year statutory manufacturer's warranty gives a lot of peace of mind. I bought my Gryphon Diablo 300 second hand from the main dealer who sold it new, it was only one year old and I get the remainder of the manufacturer's warranty.
The was a superb iconic 1980s product that had a reputation for catching fire, the Musical Fidelity A1 Class A solid state amplifier. I owned one. Heat was meant to be transferred through a metal block inside the unit in contact with the top plate. That contact was not guaranteed and heat transfer sometimes inefficient. In the reissued version they put some screws in the top to improve the contact/dissipation. I was surprised to see a death machine reissued, but I assumed it had been fixed.
The amplifier was designed by Tim de Paravicini. The casework - which was groundbreaking - was created by the design consultancy Pentagram. It was probably my first real piece of hifi.
Musical Fidelity A1 integrated amplifier
In 1989, I bought my second pair of Rogers LS3/5a's from a guy on Staten Island who had them hooked up to a Musical Fidelity A1 integrated amplifier. After playing the speakers for me, he began removing his zip-cord speaker cables and paused to show me how, at the amplifier end, his red-plastic...
www.stereophile.com
We have a lot of consumer protection in the UK/EU for this kind of thing. Also for foods, medicines, all sorts of stuff. Regulations for vehicles are unbelievable. When I occasionally order a Deliveroo it tells me exactly how many calories I've ordered. This is quite new and I now never eat coconut milk curry, unfortunately. It would be easy to regulate one of the biggest health crises in the western world, which is sugar addiction, if it weren't for lobbyists.
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I got a reply from the UK seller of QSA fuses. I offered to do a blind test of 2A fuses in my streamer and DAC. These are not safety fuses and there are no rules or regulations applying.
They said I should do the amplifier first, plug and component, even though I told them I could not because it would invalidate the warranty. Plus I will not change a regulated plug fuse and the component has 7 fuses.
They declined, saying they are an online store. I did mention to them that I've collected from them several times and I am 5 miles (13 minutes) from them.
I had another look this morning and it appears that the donor QSA 13A fuses may be a fake. I suggested they check. This is not uncommon. When I had a large office we used to have to do PAT testing (portable appliance tests). You pay these people to come in and they check all electrical appliances are being used safely, which includes there is no loose cabling to trip over, no bare wires, nothing being used near water, that kind of thing, and they also check you are using legit fuses. We've had those rules under H&S law for well over 30 years.
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