REL 6 PACK ARRAY

[arnies]

I saw Arnie's pix, the room looks amazing, would luv to hear it in action!

My experience with the array setup was buying all 6 at once and dialing them in as per REL...it takes a long time to move them around, listen, adjust etc. It sounded good (about 85% I would guess), but took having someone else to help me dial in that last bit (mostly turning them down), so now I would say they are at 95%...

My best description is that each level gives you a view of another level of the bass, with it divided into low, mid and upper. As you dial these in you are just so much more aware of additional information that was just muddier before or unheard.
View attachment 103445

That is also a beautiful listening setup. And I would agree with everything you said about using the REL array.
Arnie

 

[adyc]

Yes it is daunting and each sub will have a different High Low Level/Crossover. One would assume they would be the same. But because of the rooms acoustics they will vary because of bass frequency. The 3 need to work in unison. The anchor, first one on the floor needs to coexist with the middle sub and the middle sub needs to coexist with the top sub. Placement with a pair may be different than 3 per side. BTW your question is far from ignorant. Each sub has to be independently set. Then listen to just one side, and vise-versa. Then more incremental adjustments. Perhaps one click higher on crossover and one click less on High Low Level. Its a very slow methodical listen and adjust. When it starts to come together everything sounds more coherent. Every room will be different. Maddening exercise!!! But worth it...

Did you end up each stack is not placed symmetrically?

 

[arnies]

Hi Lloyd,

I approached moving forward with the REL G1 six pack slightly differently then KahunaCanuck did. Prior to getting the six pack, I already had a pair of REL Studio III subs paired with my Arrakis speakers which I like alot. When REL started discussing the availability of the G1 6 pack I was curious so I contacted REL about where I could hear a G1 6 pack properly setup in a good room with high quality main speakers (I did not want to hear them under audio show conditions). To my surprise I received an almost immediate response from a gentleman that worked directly for John Hunter and as it turns out he was the top REL sub bass system setup person at REL. We spoke by phone and he invited me to his home to hear his own system with Rockport Avior speakers, the REL G1 six pack in his wonderful listening room which was similiar in size to my own room. Getting a chance to hear his system with and without the 6 pack was eye opening for me. I had heard the Aviors many times so I had a very good understanding of what they are capable of sounding like. But the Aviors with the G1 six pack in this well done room had a sense of realism that even my own setup could not quite match. I am not saying that the Aviors with the 6 pack sounded better to me than my own system, but in terms of that sense of realism it made a very compelling argument in favor of getting the G1 six pack. I kept thinking that if the Aviors could produce this sense of realism I could only imagine what the Arrakis with the 6 pack could potentially sound like. I also realized how important the in room setup of the main speakers with the 6 pack would be - placement, crossover points, gain, etc. I asked my host that if I purchased the 6 pack would he come down and do the setup for me along with the REL dealer. He said that he would be happy to do that and he was a man of his word.

Since then, I have changed much of my electronics (analog and digital sources, phono stages, preamps, amplifiers, etc.) and cabling around the Arrakis and the G1 6 pack and with some of the major changes, I have found that speaker positioning (both the main speakers and the G1 arrays) and dialing in of the 6 pack will need fine tuning in terms of position relative to the main speakers, crossover points and gain. I have had this update done twice - both times by Stirling Trayle of Audio Systems Optimized. The most recent update was this past Dec 2022. In my system and in my room, each of the 2 Rel stacks have always ended up being setup identically to each other. Meaning, both bottom G1's are set the same for crossover and gain, both middle G1's are the same and both top G1's are the same. It doesn't always turn out this way in every setup but in my case it does.

I hope this helps.

Arnie

 

[LL21]

Arnie,

That is tremendous...as always. Thank you. Do you think you could give a guestimate as to how much of this improvement is due to:

- being able to set up each level of the stack according to a different area of bass
VS
- effortless bass due to the 3x increase in cone area over the original dual-sub set up

The reason of course is because I am of 2 minds:
- go with a single or dual sub but with substantially greater surface area (a pair of dual-18 opposing or even larger...which surface area is akin to a 6-pack and probably more in terms of sheer all-out air displacement)
- wait until we have more room to really go full 6-pack (we dont really have quite the width to make it work aesthetically

 

[arnies]

Arnie,

That is tremendous...as always. Thank you. Do you think you could give a guestimate as to how much of this improvement is due to:

- being able to set up each level of the stack according to a different area of bass
VS
- effortless bass due to the 3x increase in cone area over the original dual-sub set up

The reason of course is because I am of 2 minds:
- go with a single or dual sub but with substantially greater surface area (a pair of dual-18 opposing or even larger...which surface area is akin to a 6-pack and probably more in terms of sheer all-out air displacement)
- wait until we have more room to really go full 6-pack (we dont really have quite the width to make it work aesthetically

Hi Lloyd,

This is my guess - but I would have to say that the improvement that you can achieve with the REL 6 pack is mostly due to the ability to now setup each level of the stack to dial that level into a different crossover point and gain. I tend to think of it simply as the bottom REL's are the bass, the middle ones are the midrange and the top are the tweeters. I think you can get effortless bass with 2 high quality subs as long as you can integrate those subs correctly with your main speakers. But I do not think you will achieve the sonic qualities that I hear with the 6 pack with just more cone area contained within 2 subs. And my guess would be that it would be very difficult to dial in that amount of surface area contained within 2 subs from a musical point of view (although it might be great for home theater.
Again just my guess.

Arnie

 

[LL21]

Hi Arnie,

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense to me. And having listened to John Hunter describe how he thinks about the array, system matching with your main speakers...I suspect there is a reason why they have done so well with this configuration...it is utilizing fundamental bass frequencies differently than just sub40hz at effortless, high air displacement scale. It is providing tailored reinforcement and particularly surface area at ALL levels even mega-sized speakers but with each area being successively lower as it goes higher in the crossover, particularly with big 'full range' speakers.

Just allows the sound to breathe a lot more in the room particularly in the lower frequencies below 50hz-60hz where cone area is critical to more realistic power, air displacement and freedom of sound.

All conjecture from what I am reading from those who own them, have set them up and from what REL appears to be saying is their primary design goal.

 

[bryans]

Hi Lloyd,

This is my guess - but I would have to say that the improvement that you can achieve with the REL 6 pack is mostly due to the ability to now setup each level of the stack to dial that level into a different crossover point and gain. I tend to think of it simply as the bottom REL's are the bass, the middle ones are the midrange and the top are the tweeters. I think you can get effortless bass with 2 high quality subs as long as you can integrate those subs correctly with your main speakers. But I do not think you will achieve the sonic qualities that I hear with the 6 pack with just more cone area contained within 2 subs. And my guess would be that it would be very difficult to dial in that amount of surface area contained within 2 subs from a musical point of view (although it might be great for home theater.
Again just my guess.

Arnie

I agree with you 100%. For me when I had a 6 pack of S/510 what made them great was the ability to setup each sub independently. I like how you think of the subs like a speaker (bass, mids,tweeters).

 

[LL21]

I agree with you 100%. For me when I had a 6 pack of S/510 what made them great was the ability to setup each sub independently. I like how you think of the subs like a speaker (bass, mids,tweeters).

Thanks for weighing in here with your experience as well. Very very helpful to get more people with this unique experience. Is there a reason you do not use a 6-pack set up any longer?

 

[bryans]

Thanks for weighing in here with your experience as well. Very very helpful to get more people with this unique experience. Is there a reason you do not use a 6-pack set up any longer?

I was in the process of moving and sold off all of the subs. The move didn't happen and instead of going back with S/510 I was going to jump to a pair S/812. Instead I just went with a single Rel No. 31 as I have my eye on a different speaker.

I did go from a single S/510 to 2 then to 4 then to 6. It was fun with ever step.

 

[LL21]

Got it! Thanks, Bryans!

 

[adyc]

There is a video of 30 minutes from John Hunter talking how to setup stack array.

 

[John T]

Did you end up each stack is not placed symmetrically?

Sorry for the late reply Arnie. Knee Replacement surgery Monday. A bit out of commission. Each sub is different, I found setting them symmetrically to find a reference helpful. They will never be the same in any room.
What I found (and I have done very little listening) just the weekend before this Monday. Where you once had a setting of 35 gain (pre) at 30-31 the presentation takes on a "sweetness" a very fluent delivery. Your volume levels will be less. As mentioned it takes some time but once you hear it you know. Hopefully I will be enjoying my music soon.

 

[tobiasrankin]

I wonder how the 6 pack compares to different types of subs maybe even of different sizes distributed around the room at various points. I don't think subs next to the mains is always the most ideal position. And if different types of subs yields a good result then it could be much more economical (since you can find various subs used online).

 

[jonathanhorwich]

Sorry for the late reply Arnie. Knee Replacement surgery Monday. A bit out of commission. Each sub is different, I found setting them symmetrically to find a reference helpful. They will never be the same in any room.
What I found (and I have done very little listening) just the weekend before this Monday. Where you once had a setting of 35 gain (pre) at 30-31 the presentation takes on a "sweetness" a very fluent delivery. Your volume levels will be less. As mentioned it takes some time but once you hear it you know. Hopefully I will be enjoying my music soon.

I found a very low volume on the RELs helps hugely in integration with the main speakers. My recording associate has his near zero.

 

[tobiasrankin]

I found a very low volume on the RELs helps hugely in integration with the main speakers. My recording associate has his near zero.

That's fair enough but what I am referring to is more this:

 

[tobiasrankin]

Not to mention benefits of nearfield sub placement.

 

[tobiasrankin]

 

[jonathanhorwich]

Okay, I get it. Very fascinating and useful. Thank you!

 

[John T]

I found a very low volume on the RELs helps hugely in integration with the main speakers. My recording associate has his near zero.

Absolutely, integration with fewer clicks crossover/hi/low level works best in my setup too. In John Hunter's Video one would think he would have Floor Standing speakers. 15 clicks, 13 clicks, NO WAY you will be up in double digits with good quality speakers.

 

[John T]

I wonder how the 6 pack compares to different types of subs maybe even of different sizes distributed around the room at various points. I don't think subs next to the mains is always the most ideal position. And if different types of subs yields a good result then it could be much more economical (since you can find various subs used online).

Mine are to the side 12'' apart fronts are even with speakers. As I mentioned my room is big 30 X 26 X 26H with an open loft. No doubt each room will be different...