Rick Rubin

[Bill Hart]

Actually, I found it dismissive, and somewhat conclusory, in presuming that none of of us has 'major label' experience. I worked as outside counsel to many of the labels, publishers and producers, including some of those named here, for 33 years and counting and am still involved in the industry. But, maybe the guy really needs a good cup of coffee. There's always Italy....

 

[MarinJim]

I only trust my ears, and a lot of major labels seek profit first, music quality somewhere down the totem pole. Why? Because they think they can. Furthermore, I would never, ever trust "outside counsel to many labels" except to ask how much are they paying you. No offense meant, but people tend not to criticize their means of making a living (and as counsel I am sure it is a fine living).

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

All I'm really saying about the majors is that it's a big business and behaves like one. For every big business that takes risks and innovates there are a hundred that play it safe, imitate and resist change...especially when the status quo is still making money. And I don't need to work in all of the big businesses there are to make that observation.

Tim

 

[Bill Hart]

I only trust my ears, and a lot of major labels seek profit first, music quality somewhere down the totem pole. Why? Because they think they can. Furthermore, I would never, ever trust "outside counsel to many labels" except to ask how much are they paying you. No offense meant, but people tend not to criticize their means of making a living (and as counsel I am sure it is a fine living).

My comment had to do with knowledge of the industry, since our erstwhile friend dismissed this thread and his involvement here as an exercise in self-gratification by people who didn't understand how the industry worked. I didn't suggest that my knowledge of the industry gave me any insight into sound quality; that was the result of my personal interest in music and its reproduction for the past 4 decades- and what led me into this area of the law. I retired from the full-time practice of law 2 years ago to get more involved in the creative side of the business. If you go back and re-read that part of the discussion, i think you will see the context.

 

[Andre Marc]

My comment had to do with knowledge of the industry, since our erstwhile friend dismissed this thread and his involvement here as an exercise in self-gratification by people who didn't understand how the industry worked. I didn't suggest that my knowledge of the industry gave me any insight into sound quality; that was the result of my personal interest in music and its reproduction for the past 4 decades- and what led me into this area of the law. I retired from the full-time practice of law 2 years ago to get more involved in the creative side of the business. If you go back and re-read that part of the discussion, i think you will see the context.

I found that poster in question to be arrogant, dismissive, condescending, and quite negative.

I go to quite a few live shows in smaller venues and I make it a point to talk to the acts. These are
performers with major label distribution and, etc. They all tell me the same thing.
Their revenue stream is from merch, touring, and hopefully from getting a song in a movie or tv show.

You can blame any one you want..record execs, A&R men, etc. Society is largely the culprit. Even Pearl Jam wondered,
if the album has any more significance, when they released their excellent Lightening Bolt last month. I think the fact that they
launched a 45 city tour tells us how they expect to profit.

Funny side story. I spoke to Mark Lanegan, who I am a massive fan of, when he played the Casbah here in 2004. I told him as a fan
it was my sincere hope that he keeps making music and recording...he smiled and said.."God willing". Since that time
he has released many recordings, and with the help of two tours a year, and a few songs he recorded for video games,
and a few films, he makes a living. He also does a vocal on the new Moby record. The game has changed and he
would be starving if expecting to make a living today based on units sold.

 

[mep]

So how/why did M&M sell 792,000 copies of his new album the first week it was released?

 

[Andre Marc]

So how/why did M&M sell 792,000 copies of his new album the first week it was released?

Country and Rap, interestingly, are two genres that still generate big sales of physical product. Also interestingly, and conversely, revenue
from live performances by Rap acts is a non entity. Most rock clubs won't book rap acts due the liability, and there is nothing much live about it,
since the backing tracks are all canned at rap concerts.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I only trust my ears, and a lot of major labels seek profit first, music quality somewhere down the totem pole. Why? Because they think they can. Furthermore, I would never, ever trust "outside counsel to many labels" except to ask how much are they paying you. No offense meant, but people tend not to criticize their means of making a living (and as counsel I am sure it is a fine living).

Can you say Hit Maker?

 

[MarinJim]

Country and Rap, interestingly, are two genres that still generate big sales of physical product. Also interestingly, and conversely, revenue
from live performances by Rap acts is a non entity. Most rock clubs won't book rap acts due the liability, and there is nothing much live about it,
since the backing tracks are all canned at rap concerts.

Not too much of a fan of contemporary Country, but I do like Americana music.

 

[Andre Marc]

Not too much of a fan of contemporary Country, but I do like Americana music.

Yeh, "Americana" music, as sublime as it is, sells squat. I'm talking amazing artists like Patti Griffen, Over the Rhine, Dawes. Steve Earle etc. which
are not 'country", but more rootsy.

Maybe Avett Brothers or Ryan Adams, or The Mavericks have a chance.

I personally spend wads of money on this type of music, but I am one of the minute numbers
of compulsive and obsessive music consumers.

 

[Andre Marc]

Jake Bugg on Rick Rubin:

NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/a...ng-for-the-rolling-stones.html?ref=music&_r=0

What did Rick Rubin bring to “Shangri La”?

He’s just a real chilled-out guy, which suits me fine. He just had great ideas. Even if it was just repeating a line in a song, it would make such a big difference. I learned a lot from him.

You named your album after his studio.

“Shangri La” means a place that’s peaceful. A lot of the musical content and lyrical content is quite dark in places. It was nice to get all that out of me and feel at peace. I didn’t want to leave.

 

[Andre Marc]

The state of the music biz:
An Attempt to Tie a Song Fast to a Product:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/25/b...ie-a-song-fast-to-a-product.html?ref=business

"THE choice of song has long been critical to a commercial’s success — think Volkswagen and Nick Drake’s “Pink Moon” back in 1999,
or, more recently, Fiona Apple singing “Pure Imagination” in a stirring Chipotle ad. "

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Not too much of a fan of contemporary Country, but I do like Americana music.

Me too, though it gets harder and harder to know what Americana is. It started off as the folky cousin of Alt country, then evolved into a broad category encompassing all American roots music, except jazz...now, Richard Thompson is a darling of the Americana crowd. There's nothing American and not much that's rootsy, save the occasional Celtic folk reference, about Thompson's music. Maybe Americana has just become anti-pop. I hope those folks are making a good living, though. They are, on balance, more talented than most musicians working in the other genres except for jazz and classical.

Tim

 

[Andre Marc]

Me too, though it gets harder and harder to know what Americana is. It started off as the folky cousin of Alt country, then evolved into a broad category encompassing all American roots music, except jazz...now, Richard Thompson is a darling of the Americana crowd. There's nothing American and not much that's rootsy, save the occasional Celtic folk reference, about Thompson's music. Maybe Americana has just become anti-pop. I hope those folks are making a good living, though. They are, on balance, more talented than most musicians working in the other genres except for jazz and classical.

Tim

You are correct. In the end, the definition of Americana is very broad. Anything with a hint of twang is labelled as such.

The original topic of this thread, Rick Rubin, with the Cash American Recordings series, was able to actually make it
commercially viable.

I am huge Richard Thompson fan, and again, and he is in a unique position of having over 500 cover versions of his
songs recorded. Outside of that he tours non stop and sells recordings to die hard fans from his website via download
and physical copy. Categorizing him as Americana maybe due to, as you say, being anti-pop.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

You are correct. In the end, the definition of Americana is very broad. Anything with a hint of twang is labelled as such.

The original topic of this thread, Rick Rubin, with the Cash American Recordings series, was able to actually make it
commercially viable.

I am huge Richard Thompson fan, and again, and he is in a unique position of having over 500 cover versions of his
songs recorded. Outside of that he tours non stop and sells recordings to die hard fans from his website via download
and physical copy. Categorizing him as Americana maybe due to, as you say, being anti-pop.

RT is a thing unto himself. His playing can be frantic and there is rarely a blue note, nor a pentatonic scale (what almost all Western pop music is built upon) to be found in his solos. His baratone voice, though he has become a much more accomplished singer over the years, is still an acquired taste. Love it like a good single-barrel bourbon, personally. I know serious music lovers who are not RT fans, but his songwriting skills are impossible to deny. Even if his songs weren't so inventive and infectious structurally and melodically, lyrically, well...

Bathsheba smiles
She smiles and veins turn to ice
She smiles and heads bow down
She works the room
Air-kisses every victim twice
She spreads her joy around

...hell, his covers are more creative than most artists' originals. His cover of Britney Spears' "Oops I Did It Again" in which, just through his delivery, that pop-tart candy wrapper of a song suddenly takes on great weight, irony, dark humor. His cover of Joni Mitchell's "Black Crow," without touching the lyric, moves from Joni's relatively light self-examination to downright menacing.

RT is a genius.

Tim

 

[Andre Marc]

RT is a thing unto himself. His playing can be frantic and there is rarely a blue note, nor a pentatonic scale (what almost all Western pop music is built upon) to be found in his solos. His baratone voice, though he has become a much more accomplished singer over the years, is still an acquired taste. Love it like a good single-barrel bourbon, personally. I know serious music lovers who are not RT fans, but his songwriting skills are impossible to deny. Even if his songs weren't so inventive and infectious structurally and melodically, lyrically, well...

Bathsheba smiles
She smiles and veins turn to ice
She smiles and heads bow down
She works the room
Air-kisses every victim twice
She spreads her joy around

...hell, his covers are more creative than most artists' originals. His cover of Britney Spears' "Oops I Did It Again" in which, just through his delivery, that pop-tart candy wrapper of a song suddenly takes on great weight, irony, dark humor. His cover of Joni Mitchell's "Black Crow," without touching the lyric, moves from Joni's relatively light self-examination to downright menacing.

RT is a genius.

Tim

Superb and eloquent synopsis of RT! I can't add anything except to say his guitar playing is awe inspiring,
and he has played on countless records..everybody from cohort Sandy Denny, Robert Plant, the great Nick Drake,
and hundreds more.

Other artists have made careers of covering his songs.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Superb and eloquent synopsis of RT! I can't add anything except to say his guitar playing is awe inspiring,
and he has played on countless records..everybody from cohort Sandy Denny, Robert Plant, the great Nick Drake,
and hundreds more.

Other artists have made careers of covering his songs.

Have you seen him, Andre? I took my daughter, now 29, to see RT, solo acoustic, small hall, 5th row center, as one of her very first concert experience. Blew her young mind. Most recently I saw him open for Rodney Crowell and Emmylou Harris (working that Americana crowd...).

Tim

 

[Andre Marc]

Have you seen him, Andre? I took my daughter, now 29, to see RT, solo acoustic, small hall, 5th row center, as one of her very first concert experience. Blew her young mind. Most recently I saw him open for Rodney Crowell and Emmylou Harris (working that Americana crowd...).

Tim

Yes, I have, and again, you nailed the experience perfectly.

I recently saw him this summer at my favorite venue, the Belly Up Tavern. I actually prefer him electric.

He was touring to promote his aptly titled recent masterwork, "Electric". Simply astonishing.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Looky here....

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365123485/

Tim

 

[Andre Marc]

Looky here....

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365123485/

Tim

Good find! But um, Mumford & Sons are British.

But of course EmmyLou Harris is the Queen of "roots" music.