Rick Rubin

[MylesBAstor]

was it re-pressed before on 180? i agree the orig had many pressing defects. I saw an announcement the latest reissue is due next Feb.

Yes but don't know the particulars. But I thought that was the one currently available (?) It's around here somewhere (?)

 

[Bill Hart]

cash's American recordings is an awesome album, there are three in the series that I know of, all-acoustic sets with dare I say "audiophile" production values. im kinda surprised you don't own it, I think its up your alley. I recently tried to buy replacements and was shocked they traded for 5x their orig cost. fortunately they'll be reissued on vinyl shortly. "Delias gone" puts a smile on my face every time I hear it.

RR was interviewed on NPR like last week and mentioned the Cash sessions. Cash was pretty weak by the last album and had to take breaks between singing a verse, sometimes 20-mins at a time.

Yeah, I'm kinda surprised I don't have them either, easy enough to track down. But your later discussion w/ Myles suggests that the original pressings were sucky? And the later 180 gram ones were as well? Maybe an EU pressing of the original?
These weren't done in Japan in mono on red vinyl right?

 

[Andre Marc]

Hi

I lament the loudness war and yes, I believe it is detrimental to music. I also believe that people are noticing and there is a pushback against it...

I also read most of the thread. I agree with Andre posts.

For starters we are not the market Rick Rubin was aiming at... Do you think he would be as successful if he were targeting us? We would buy a few of the albums he produced. he would be left with just enough to take a taxi in Manhattan... We should be reminded that as a group our degree of relevance in albums (audiophile) spending is close to zero.

meanwhile the man produced a truckload of extremely successful albums some of them of great musical worth to me and I would say to millions of people ... We can;t say that much about most if not all audiophiles-aimed albums which for the most part sucks musically speaking ..Great sonics but poor music seems to be norm for many audiophile-aimed albums. Some less generous person would say "all", they wouldn't be be far from the truth..

Interesting comments.

When I look over my music collection, many of Rubin's productions are cornerstones, like the Cash "American" series, and more.

However, I actually DO think he does shoot for "us" as a market..with his work with Cash, Petty, Donovan, Neil Diamond, Red Hot Chili Peppers etc etc.

John Atkinson likes to say the better the music the worse the sound and the better the sound..well you know the rest..

 

[Andre Marc]

While on the topic of compression. This from the Analog Addict:

For a decade following its release in the autumn of 1982, Dire Straits' Love Over Gold could be heard in near constant rotation on the turntables of stereo shops everywhere, a quintessential audiophile "demo disc." Mark Knopfler & company have always released impeccably produced albums, but even by the band's high standards, Love Over Gold set something of a high-water mark in the pantheon of rock recordings, due in no small part to the creative engineering by Neil Dorfsman. The album offers a cornucopia of sonic delights: exquisitely sweet classical guitar, marimba, and piano, whiplash percussion attacks, and slashing bursts of electric guitar, all recorded with enough air and breathing room to allow the music to unfold naturally in a virtual space of believable scale and convincing perspective. Several tracks exhibit an astonishing dynamic range exceeding 65dB, which must have proved quite a challenge to Bob Ludwig during the LP mastering process. The original CD is marginally impaired by the limits of early analog-to-digital converters, but is infinitely preferable to the later Warner Remasters CD re-release, which shamefully desecrates the album's legacy with clipped peaks, prematurely attenuated note decay, a collapsed in-your-face presentation,

That is an interesting an IMO highly inaccurate portrayal of the remastered CD. I took my CD downtown to a guys apartment who had a
gorgeous set up with Revel speakers, a Cary CD player, an SMC vinyl set up with CJ amps. We compared his pristine LP to the CD and we were
BOTH surprised how very, very close they were. It was hard to pick one or the other.

 

[Bill Hart]

Interesting comments.

When I look over my music collection, many of Rubin's productions are cornerstones, like the Cash "American" series, and more.

However, I actually DO think he does shoot for "us" as a market..with his work with Cash, Petty, Donovan, Neil Diamond, Red Hot Chili Peppers etc etc.

John Atkinson likes to say the better the music the worse the sound and the better the sound..well you know the rest..

That's been a long time lament of 'audiophile' records- I have a large shelf devoted to them and almost never listen to them- Wilsons, Levinsons, Fultons, D2D, many other labels and particular records I can't even remember right now.
I especially like mainstream stuff, not just the esoterica. That, in turn, has led me back to the old pop stuff from the late 60's and 70's which is recorded more primitively. Some of it is collectible, so it isn't cheap. But a lot of it is -8 dollar records that blow your socks off. Thus, my thread on 70's music on vinyl. Granted, that doesn't address the question of newer music. I gather a lot of people like the Daft Punk 'RAM' record for its musical value, and I haven't heard anybody bitch about the sound quality. So maybe it isn't as bleak as it seems. Some of the Ben Harper records sound pretty good on vinyl- that one he did in Paris in 98 was done in an all analog studio. His newer records are good too. And so on....

 

[MylesBAstor]

John Atkinson likes to say the better the music the worse the sound and the better the sound..well you know the rest..

Actually it was JGH the founder of Stereophile who originally coined that phrase and if you double check, John always gives Gordon credit.

 

[Andre Marc]

That's been a long time lament of 'audiophile' records- I have a large shelf devoted to them and almost never listen to them- Wilsons, Levinsons, Fultons, D2D, many other labels and particular records I can't even remember right now.
I especially like mainstream stuff, not just the esoterica. That, in turn, has led me back to the old pop stuff from the late 60's and 70's which is recorded more primitively. Some of it is collectible, so it isn't cheap. But a lot of it is -8 dollar records that blow your socks off. Thus, my thread on 70's music on vinyl. Granted, that doesn't address the question of newer music. I gather a lot of people like the Daft Punk 'RAM' record for its musical value, and I haven't heard anybody bitch about the sound quality. So maybe it isn't as bleak as it seems. Some of the Ben Harper records sound pretty good on vinyl- that one he did in Paris in 98 was done in an all analog studio. His newer records are good too. And so on....

Great post..and it is NOT as bleak as it seems. I have records recorded in the past 5 years that are dynamite..from folks like Ryan Adams, Ray Lamontagne, as you noted, Ben Harper, Fleet Foxes, Arcade Fire, Lumineers, etc.

BTW, the guy I mentioned with the Dire Straits LP..he also played a bunch of records he found for nothing at local shops but that sounded amazing...lots of jazz, big band, blues etc...not audiophile pressings, but high quality none the less. It was a great listening session.

 

[MylesBAstor]

That is an interesting an IMO highly inaccurate portrayal of the remastered CD. I took my CD downtown to a guys apartment who had a
gorgeous set up with Revel speakers, a Cary CD player, an SMC vinyl set up with CJ amps. We compared his pristine LP to the CD and we were
BOTH surprised how very, very close they were. It was hard to pick one or the other.

What's a SMC vinyl set up?

 

[Andre Marc]

Actually it was JGH the founder of Stereophile who originally coined that phrase and if you double check, John always gives Gordon credit.

Yes, you are correct..since JA used it very recently in a Stereophile blog post concerning the new Elvis Costello & The Roots album (it sounds like ****) I quoted him. He liked the music, but hates the recording. He did give JGH credit.

 

[Andre Marc]

What's a SMC vinyl set up?

Oh, gosh. Sorry, I meant a Brinkmann. I just got an iPad Air and auto correct is killing me.

 

[MylesBAstor]

That is an interesting an IMO highly inaccurate portrayal of the remastered CD. I took my CD downtown to a guys apartment who had a
gorgeous set up with Revel speakers, a Cary CD player, an SMC vinyl set up with CJ amps. We compared his pristine LP to the CD and we were
BOTH surprised how very, very close they were. It was hard to pick one or the other.

BTW, which version of LOG was he using? The original or the remastered version?

 

[Andre Marc]

BTW, which version of LOG was he using? The original or the remastered version?

I honestly am not sure. It had decent play..but I can't say.

 

[DaveyF]

Love over Gold was and is IMO still one of the best sounding rock LP's ever.( OTOH, I think the Sheffield Lab 20 ( Track record) is probably the best sounding rock LP....even though it's not that great an LP musically, IMHO) Speaking of great sounding LP's, I just picked up an original Bergenfield Prestige Soultrane....boy did RVG have it pegged on this one.
BTW, to those who haven't heard the original pressing Blue Notes, Prestige LP's, Six Eye Columbia's, RCA's and others....please refrain from commenting until you have cued up one on your TT.

 

[Bill Hart]

Love over Gold was and is IMO still one of the best sounding rock LP's ever.( OTOH, I think the Sheffield Lab 20 ( Track record) is probably the best sounding rock LP....even though it's not that great an LP musically, IMHO) Speaking of great sounding LP's, I just picked up an original Bergenfield Prestige Soultrane....boy did RVG have it pegged on this one.
BTW, to those who haven't heard the original pressing Blue Notes, Prestige LP's, Six Eye Columbia's, RCA's and others....please refrain from commenting until you have cued up one on your TT.

Davey- all cool, but you are getting into pricey collector record territory; i'm talking about records the general population has had ready access to, knows and can buy today for barely more than the cost of media mail shipping.

 

[Orb]

I just looked at his discography and I only have a few of his recordings. He is heavy with rap and crap which I don't listen to. I see he has credit for the Adele-21 album which was also panned for the heavy compression applied. When Bill says "does it matter?" I guess I'm not sure in what way he is referring to. Does it matter if he makes LOUD records because he is being paid to make loud records? Probably not. Does it matter if he makes them loud because he wants to? Maybe not. Does it matter if he is criticized as long as he is rich and could care less what people think about him? I guess not.

Context is important and yes the type of music style he mostly works within probably has that trend beyond just his work - and I can appreciate this segment of music is not to most listeners' enjoyment
But he also has such as Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Mick Jagger, early Red Hot Chilli Peppers (before they went compressed).
He also has some pretty good metal bands to his name as well and before the Metallica "headache" (from an interview I am sure I read Rick mentioning he gave them 3 options and they chose the most compressed).

Cheers
Orb

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I honestly don't know most of the guy's work, but his incredible, spare, artful, emotionally raw capture of the rapidly diminishing Cash forgives an awful lot of sins. We owe this guy.

Tim

 

[rbbert]

That is an interesting an IMO highly inaccurate portrayal of the remastered CD. I took my CD downtown to a guys apartment who had a
gorgeous set up with Revel speakers, a Cary CD player, an SMC vinyl set up with CJ amps. We compared his pristine LP to the CD and we were
BOTH surprised how very, very close they were. It was hard to pick one or the other.

That's kind of interesting, because I have the SACD, original and remastered CD's, and none of them sound very much like each other except in the most superficial way, although the original CD and the SACD seem to have very similar (or same) mastering compared to the remastered CD.

 

[Andre Marc]

That's kind of interesting, because I have the SACD, original and remastered CD's, and none of them sound very much like each other except in the most superficial way, although the original CD and the SACD seem to have very similar (or same) mastering compared to the remastered CD.

Hey rbbert:

Also interesting. The "original" cd was mastered from LP production tapes. The "remastered" CD was done by Bob Ludwig at Gateway from the original tapes.
I do not have the SACD, so I can't say much about it. I know there were several iffy vinyl pressings, some from digital masters? Maybe others can chime in on that.

 

[Andre Marc]

I honestly don't know most of the guy's work, but his incredible, spare, artful, emotionally raw capture of the rapidly diminishing Cash forgives an awful lot of sins. We owe this guy.

Tim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Rubin_production_discography

I strongly recommend Donovan's Sutras, for which Rubin provided a similar context to the Cash recordings. Simply
a stunning record, and a big surprise at that point in Donovan's career (1996)

 

[jazdoc]

Here's a fascinating 2007 NY Times article profiling Rubin in the context of an evolving recording industry (cross posted on another WBF thread):


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/magazine/02rubin.t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0