Riviera Labs AFM-100 SE Class A Monoi amplifiers- something new and different

[Opabin]

I like how you described it. I used the same syrup less description to a friend yesterday. There is no "golden glow" one would not instantly say well that's a tube piece. I listened a lot yesterday and was trying to think about how to describe what is happening with my system and my room.
I first set the pre into the system and listened for a while and then I remembered that I still had the other preamp pluggerd into the primary earth spot of the Q Baae reference form Nordost. I am using this power distribution device on the front components of my system so I changed the power cord into the proper space and began listening again.
I have said many times the "audiophile terms" mean little to me , so I want to describe what I am hearing in the simplist and the clearest way that I can. I am no author or a linquist but I will do my best.
The combination of the AFM-100SE power amps and the APL01 SE special edition Preamp light my system up. Yes they light it up. I seem to be able to "see" into the music more. Thsi illumination of the instruments, voices and the spaces between is unique in my experience. One would think well it must be brighter? right? no that's not it. Well it must be changing something else right? no I don't think so.There is a sense of purity that the system can do now that it never did before. I can say I loved the result we got at CAPFEST and lot's of people heard that system and enjoyed it as well butI really wanted to hear it at home. Can I live with it in my room, my system and with my ability to go through the music that I enjoy to really undersatnd what I heard at the show.
There is something unique to the gear. It is different and plays that way. The amps are relatively compact yet they sound like they have unlimited power. I can play my system louder now than ever before, such that it scares me a little. LOL
It produces this level of purity accross the whole musical spectrum and I can hear things in recordings I thought I knew with much great clarity and ease.
Few examples: I use a flamenco piece by Pepe Romero called Zapateado which featues acoustic guitar and flamenco dancers and it can be thunderous, explosive and a real wow track. It has never sounded this way it just is scary real, the dancers speed and floor pounding is in my room. I love the Movie "the last Samurai" and the Franz Zimmer soundtrack , especially the ending is haunting, beautiful and expansive and very powerful. It is just amazing to listen to this in my moderate sized room. When I played it late yesterday two of the guys here burst into the room and said it sound incredible through the door and they wanted to come in and listen. The third is a piece I just found from Willie Nelson's 90th Bday party which I saw a bit on TV and managed to find the album on Qobuz. There is a song, sung by his son Lukas called Angel flying to close to the ground" that is live, just Lukas and his guitar at the Hollywood bowl , this recording right on the edge of being too much yet it isn't . It is a treat for me to hear this young man who sounds and plays like his Dad do this tribute to the master. Its GOOSEBUMP Moment.

I am not a scientist and don't really understand the tech talk but I do know what I am listening to and I truly love it.
These components are something that should be heard I think they really are onto something special.

Congratulations, Elliot! Isn’t it grand, with your long audiophile career, there are still new components like these that can astonish and move you so much?

Have you had, by chance, any opportunity to hear the other Riviera components, particularly the AFM50 amp? I imagine you may just be focussed on the AFM100, but any comparisons or speaker matching experience you'd like to share would be most appreciated.

 

[Elliot G.]

Congratulations, Elliot! Isn’t it grand, with your long audiophile career, there are still new components like these that can astonish and move you so much?

Have you had, by chance, any opportunity to hear the other Riviera components, particularly the AFM50 amp? I imagine you may just be focussed on the AFM100, but any comparisons or speaker matching experience you'd like to share would be most appreciated.

Thank you and yes it is but this has been a common theme for 50 years. THere will always be something you come accross that will move you and change your view on what's possible. It doesn't happen that often but it is fun when it does. I now have three of them
I have only used the 100's and I would bet on a reasonably efficient speaker that the 50 would work really well. My speakers are 92db and I am going to try them on the Noblesse which is higher at 95. IOhave heard the 100's on Rockports and they worked really well on them, sorry I'm not sure the effciency of the Orions but they sounded really good at Munich.
If you tell me what tyou have I'm happy to inquire with my contacts and get thei thoughts for you.
It is looking like we are going to rerun at Axpona what we did at Capfest with a few twists.

 

[mxk116]

I have been using Riviera APL 01se since approx. 2 years and has been the preamp of my choice ever since. I still vividly remember when I have compared it to my past reference preamp (dht, fully balanced, tube power supply) and it sounded almost broken compared to Riviera. APL 01se was much more musical, notes where connected (I have used “continuousness” to describe this), bass was much more natural (strong, full, controlled). The energy in music was almost lifelike. Voices sounded really as a human being was standing in my room. But IMHO Riviera is not for “analysts” among us because it drives you to listen to music holistically and just enjoy it. Riviera preamp became the heart of my system. It really injects life and enjoyment in it. But all these descriptions should not misslead you in thinking Riviera is colored and not transparent. No, it clearly differentiates among good and bad quality recordings. Only that the later are still quite enjoyable to listen to. And all the details (including stage) are there.

What is interesting for me is the theory how Riviera uses human perception as a basis to finetune the sound. I think Lamm also claimed something similar but the result is in my opinion quite different. Having owned M1.2 monoblocks and extensively tested LP 1, I think I have pretty good idea of Lamm’s sound. For me, Riviera is a clear winner and much closer to what I think what natural sound is.

What a wonderful description of your appreciation of the Riviera APL 01se preamp. My exposure to Riviera products is in combination with Goebel Divin Marquis speakers at an audio trade show in the USA. I experienced the same "gestalt" and "continuous-ness" you describe. In fact, that is how I would describe the sound of the Westminster Lab electronics I am using. I admire the fact that the human somatic response to music is being honored in the design of the Riviera and, in my opinion, the Westminster Lab gear as well. I am certain there are other designers/manufacturers that include this dimension in the products they build but my knowledge of the audio landscape is finite.

Your contribution to this thread makes me curious about the other components in your system.

 

[LL21]

I have been using Riviera APL 01se since approx. 2 years and has been the preamp of my choice ever since. I still vividly remember when I have compared it to my past reference preamp (dht, fully balanced, tube power supply) and it sounded almost broken compared to Riviera. APL 01se was much more musical, notes where connected (I have used “continuousness” to describe this), bass was much more natural (strong, full, controlled). The energy in music was almost lifelike. Voices sounded really as a human being was standing in my room. But IMHO Riviera is not for “analysts” among us because it drives you to listen to music holistically and just enjoy it. Riviera preamp became the heart of my system. It really injects life and enjoyment in it. But all these descriptions should not misslead you in thinking Riviera is colored and not transparent. No, it clearly differentiates among good and bad quality recordings. Only that the later are still quite enjoyable to listen to. And all the details (including stage) are there.

What is interesting for me is the theory how Riviera uses human perception as a basis to finetune the sound. I think Lamm also claimed something similar but the result is in my opinion quite different. Having owned M1.2 monoblocks and extensively tested LP 1, I think I have pretty good idea of Lamm’s sound. For me, Riviera is a clear winner and much closer to what I think what natural sound is.

Very interesting reading and always heard great things about Riviera. Also of course read many good things about Lamm. Could you explain how those 2 sounds are different for you? Thanks for any listening notes!

 

[Tbzc]

Do not want to derail the thread or create unproductive discussion. I have had Lamm 1.2 and tried AFM 100se in my system. Lamm is for me closer to neutral, Riviera closer to natural. Lamm injects some energy in the system, Riviera to me brings out the meaning of music with more holistic and organic approach. If I would use Lamm preamp maybe the result would be different. But I doubt.

 

[Tbzc]

What a wonderful description of your appreciation of the Riviera APL 01se preamp. My exposure to Riviera products is in combination with Goebel Divin Marquis speakers at an audio trade show in the USA. I experienced the same "gestalt" and "continuous-ness" you describe. In fact, that is how I would describe the sound of the Westminster Lab electronics I am using. I admire the fact that the human somatic response to music is being honored in the design of the Riviera and, in my opinion, the Westminster Lab gear as well. I am certain there are other designers/manufacturers that include this dimension in the products they build but my knowledge of the audio landscape is finite.

Your contribution to this thread makes me curious about the other components in your system.

My system consists - apart of Riviera preamp - of Sigma MAAT speakers, Nat Magma New power amps, Nat Sig phono preamp, Techdas Two turntable with Supreme audio and Thales Statement tonearms, MSL Ex, Hana Umami Red, Miyajima Kansui, Kiseki Blackheart, Metronome cAQWO dac, cardas, boenicke, harmonix, faber cables.

 

[Elliot G.]

Do not want to derail the thread or create unproductive discussion. I have had Lamm 1.2 and tried AFM 100se in my system. Lamm is for me closer to neutral, Riviera closer to natural. Lamm injects some energy in the system, Riviera to me brings out the meaning of music with more holistic and organic approach. If I would use Lamm preamp maybe the result would be different. But I doubt.

I think that you have dialed into the real meat of what these components can do. I gave my view about illumination and I feel very strongly that these pieces get you to the heart of what is happening with and in the music. There are two interesting things that happen at the same time. First is the incredible clarity that one hears and at the same time the ability to just relax and flow into the music. I have been trying to find the right words and perhaps after some more time Ill think of something better but for now I am just enjoying the sound. I am curious to see if it improves with a few more days since my preamp is only online for three days.
I have a client coming in this morning who owns a big system I am looking foward to show this to him.

 

[LL21]

Thank you Tbcz and Elliot G...very interesting to read. And nice system, Tbcz! (We already know well Elliot has a few great systems!)

I think the discernment you (and Riviera) are articulating as the design goals of Riviera for their equipment is important. Not everyone quite articulates it this way, and I think that 'sometimes' it is important because in many cases that nuanced articulation is actually reflected in the product. There are those who describe their design goal as very measurement-based...nothing wrong with that per se...but it is a reflection of their design approach and the details of their goal.

Others expressly focus more on 'natural' and rarely if ever mention measurements.

And then you have Lamm and Riviera who focus on measurements of human hearing...which few mention officially.

 

[Elliot G.]

Interesting my client came in this am. He sat and listened , didnt say anything. Asked to hear a few pieces that he liked . At first he was hesitant and resisted and then he started to really get into it and listened more and ended with us dicussing trading in his gear for the Riviera.
I think this is one of those things that the more you listen the more you appreciate it what it does and the more you want it.
Sometimes audio can be fun , like the old days!

 

[LL21]

Interesting my client came in this am. He sat and listened , didnt say anything. Asked to hear a few pieces that he liked . At first he was hesitant and resisted and then he started to really get into it and listened more and ended with us dicussing trading in his gear for the Riviera.
I think this is one of those things that the more you listen the more you appreciate it what it does and the more you want it.
Sometimes audio can be fun , like the old days!

Excellent!

 

[Opabin]

Elliot, my understanding is the AFM100SE uses a 12AU7 triode and the APL01SE, a 6350 variant of 12AU7. If convenient, could you give any details on the tubes provided in your Riviera amps? And though you sound super happy with how they sound now, have you given any thought to tube rolling and the tube variants you’d like to try?

 

[morricab]

My system consists - apart of Riviera preamp - of Sigma MAAT speakers, Nat Magma New power amps, Nat Sig phono preamp, Techdas Two turntable with Supreme audio and Thales Statement tonearms, MSL Ex, Hana Umami Red, Miyajima Kansui, Kiseki Blackheart, Metronome cAQWO dac, cardas, boenicke, harmonix, faber cables.

Just out of curiosity, why not a NAT preamp since your amps and phono are NAT?

 

[LL21]

Just out of curiosity, why not a NAT preamp since your amps and phono are NAT?

I wonder if the Riviera replaced an NAT preamp? Originally in this thread, he did say the Riviera replaced his former reference tubed preamp...but could not tell if it was an NAT by his description particularly as I dont know NAT preamps well.

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot, my understanding is the AFM100SE uses a 12AU7 triode and the APL01SE, a 6350 variant of 12AU7. If convenient, could you give any details on the tubes provided in your Riviera amps? And though you sound super happy with how they sound now, have you given any thought to tube rolling and the tube variants you’d like to try?

I’m not into doing that . My interest is listening and exploring all the music I can. Which tube doesn’t interest me and I don’t plan on going down that rabbit hole.
I am very much enjoying the system as set up.

 

[bonzo75]

Do not want to derail the thread or create unproductive discussion. I have had Lamm 1.2 and tried AFM 100se in my system. Lamm is for me closer to neutral, Riviera closer to natural. Lamm injects some energy in the system, Riviera to me brings out the meaning of music with more holistic and organic approach. If I would use Lamm preamp maybe the result would be different. But I doubt.

the Lamm hybrid with Sigma MAAT and the Lamm pre was by far the least good combo heard in four Sigma systems. I think the hybrid might be better suited to less efficient, low impedance speakers than the Sigma

 

[Tbzc]

Just out of curiosity, why not a NAT preamp since your amps and phono are NAT?

Relevant question. I have only tried an older version of second best NAT preamp but mine Ayon Conquistador was better. After Ayon came Riviera which was much better in every aspect.

 

[Tbzc]

the Lamm hybrid with Sigma MAAT and the Lamm pre was by far the least good combo heard in four Sigma systems. I think the hybrid might be better suited to less efficient, low impedance speakers than the Sigma

My experience is the same. I have extensively tried (owned ) many different types of amps on MAAT and always ended up with tubes. Solid state amps (Gryphon Mephisto, MSB M204) were not really good option. Hybrids were better. Tried Lamm 1.2, Beyond Audio Frontiers monoblocks, Aries Ianus, Riviera 100se. Riviera and Aries were best among hybrids, although different flavour. Aries sounds more like Lamm but much better. Riviera like already discussed more musical, organic, holistic but still transparent. MAATs really shine with tubes. Tried 5 of them, from 30w to 600w, SET to PP. The best were NATs, both Transmitter and Magma New. Aldo, the designer of Sigma Acoustics, heard my system with Transmitters (driven by Soulution 725) and was visibly impressed. Reading about big Goebels speakers, which are somehow similar to MAATs, I can imagine they really shine with excellent hybrids like Riviera or tubes like used at AudioExotics.

 

[bonzo75]

My experience is the same. I have extensively tried (owned ) many different types of amps on MAAT and always ended up with tubes. Solid state amps (Gryphon Mephisto, MSB M204) were not really good option. Hybrids were better. Tried Lamm 1.2, Beyond Audio Frontiers monoblocks, Aries Ianus, Riviera 100se. Riviera and Aries were best among hybrids, although different flavour. Aries sounds more like Lamm but much better. Riviera like already discussed more musical, organic, holistic but still transparent. MAATs really shine with tubes. Tried 5 of them, from 30w to 600w, SET to PP. The best were NATs, both Transmitter and Magma New. Aldo, the designer of Sigma Acoustics, heard my system with Transmitters (driven by Soulution 725) and was visibly impressed. Reading about big Goebels speakers, which are somehow similar to MAATs, I can imagine they really shine with excellent hybrids like Riviera or tubes like used at AudioExotics.

the Riviera 50w hybrid is a very good amp when tube rolled as we did at Gian’s friend’s place on the old Wilson Grand slam. Only good Wilson system I heard.

however, comparing it on Devores, lower watt SETs were much better.

 

[Opabin]

the Riviera 50w hybrid is a very good amp when tube rolled as we did at Gian’s friend’s place on the old Wilson Grand slam. Only good Wilson system I heard.

however, comparing it on Devores, lower watt SETs were much better.

Do you recall the details of the tubes that were tried in the AFM50, which ones worked well and which ones did not? Grateful for any shared information.

 

[bonzo75]

Do you recall the details of the tubes that were tried in the AFM50, which ones worked well and which ones did not? Grateful for any shared information.

that was back in 2018, we changed the stock to a Mullard that made it sound great. Is it the EL34 in there? I can’t exactly recall