RMAF 2012 - who's going?

[rbbert]

I spent about an hour in the TP room late Saturday morning. Underwhelming to say the least, and I have no doubt the room was a major contributor to that. Other reviewers mentioned the VTL amps as possible culprits. When I mentioned this to Andrew Jones in the "small" room later, he said he hadn't been involved in setting up or choosing associated components for the TP room. In any case, plenty of showgoers at the time, and IIRC even some professional reviewers for TAS and Stereophile, mentioned similar opinions.

My point was simply that the sound of a system, particularly at a show, depends on a lot more than the source. I enjoyed both analog and digital sources at last years RAMF, and Myles' experience to the contrary, the sources that most bothered me were scratchy and/or warped records, not "harsh" or "clinical" digital.

Oh, BTW, customized Studer set up by the TP people. Didn't sound as good to me as Bruce B.'s room.

 

[Mosin]

I spent about an hour in the TP room late Saturday morning. Underwhelming to say the least, and I have no doubt the room was a major contributor to that. Other reviewers mentioned the VTL amps as possible culprits. When I mentioned this to Andrew Jones in the "small" room later, he said he hadn't been involved in setting up or choosing associated components for the TP room. In any case, plenty of showgoers at the time, and IIRC even some professional reviewers for TAS and Stereophile, mentioned similar opinions.

My point was simply that the sound of a system, particularly at a show, depends on a lot more than the source. I enjoyed both analog and digital sources at last years RAMF, and Myles' experience to the contrary, the sources that most bothered me were scratchy and/or warped records, not "harsh" or "clinical" digital.

Oh, BTW, customized Studer set up by the TP people. Didn't sound as good to me as Bruce B.'s room.

I went to that room with two other people. They thought it was great, but I heard what you heard. Until I read your post, I was beginning to believe it was me and not the room. Now, I wonder about those two friends.

What I heard specifically was a deficiency in the midrange that I didn't think came from the source, but from the amps somehow. I mentioned it to another friend, but I forgot that he owns VTL amps. He immediately reminded me! Fortunately, he is a nice guy who took no offense, and I understand that VTL amps are really good. Still, what I heard didn't seem to be source related...to my ears, anyway.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I spent about an hour in the TP room late Saturday morning. Underwhelming to say the least, and I have no doubt the room was a major contributor to that. Other reviewers mentioned the VTL amps as possible culprits. When I mentioned this to Andrew Jones in the "small" room later, he said he hadn't been involved in setting up or choosing associated components for the TP room. In any case, plenty of showgoers at the time, and IIRC even some professional reviewers for TAS and Stereophile, mentioned similar opinions.

My point was simply that the sound of a system, particularly at a show, depends on a lot more than the source. I enjoyed both analog and digital sources at last years RAMF, and Myles' experience to the contrary, the sources that most bothered me were scratchy and/or warped records, not "harsh" or "clinical" digital.

Oh, BTW, customized Studer set up by the TP people. Didn't sound as good to me as Bruce B.'s room.

First there was something wrong with the Spiral Groove 'table or the Lyra cartridge. Stirling was there working on that evening when we were there.

Two, the system sounded awful with a full room. And the room was packed at all time. I didn't like the sound when I listened to it during the day.

Third, and to say how good the sound was that night, there was no way was buying the CCR tape based upon the sound I've heard on the LPs/reissues. The sound that night made a convert of me.

Lastly, Paul and Dan were using a modded 1/2" Otari (MTR-15 IIRC) deck to play back these very special 1/2 inch tapes. It doesn't get any better than this save for listening to the master tape or a 1-inch copy.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I didn’t hear those two rooms so I can’t comment on them. I also don’t hold the TP tapes in the same esteem as lots of other people do. Do you know what R2R deck was spinning the TP tapes and what TP tape(s) you heard?
And having said the above, I can’t imagine that RB CD sounded better than a TP tape if the deck was in good shape and had decent PB electronics.

Depends on the TP tape. The Bill Evans for instance is to die for. Wish they'd do the compatriot recording!

 

[Bill Hart]

First there was something wrong with the Spiral Groove 'table or the Lyra cartridge. Stirling was there working on that evening when we were there.

Two, the system sounded awful with a full room. And the room was packed at all time. I didn't like the sound when I listened to it during the day.

Third, and to say how good the sound was that night, there was no way was buying the CCR tape based upon the sound I've heard on the LPs/reissues. The sound that night made a convert of me.

Lastly, Paul and Dan were using a modded 1/2" Otari (MTR-15 IIRC) deck to play back these very special 1/2 inch tapes. It doesn't get any better than this save for listening to the master tape or a 1-inch copy.

View attachment 5200

Myles, not to derail this thread, but have you already done a run down of the various machines that can be adapted for playback of 1/2" 15 ips, from the basic Technics, Revox-Studer home type machines, to the more heavy-weight studio/pro types? If you haven't done that, could you, in the R2R section? My take is that these studio quality machines -which sometimes seem cheap on the used market given the calibre of the hardware- cost a considerable amount not just to restore, but to maintain, although they have an awful lot of gravitas, if you know what I mean. I'm aware that most folks changes out the preamps, so I'd take that as a given.
Thank you.
bill

 

[MylesBAstor]

Myles, not to derail this thread, but have you already done a run down of the various machines that can be adapted for playback of 1/2" 15 ips, from the basic Technics, Revox-Studer home type machines, to the more heavy-weight studio/pro types? If you haven't done that, could you, in the R2R section? My take is that these studio quality machines -which sometimes seem cheap on the used market given the calibre of the hardware- cost a considerable amount not just to restore, but to maintain, although they have an awful lot of gravitas, if you know what I mean. I'm aware that most folks changes out the preamps, so I'd take that as a given.
Thank you.
bill

There are better people like Charlie than me to ask; I think that JRF builds 1/2" heads for any pro deck like Studer or Ampex but then remember the tape gets very expensive. Mike L. has a 1/2 inch headstack for his deck and is getting the TP releases on 1/2 inch tape. That oughta be a real treat. But there just aren't that many 1/2 inch tapes around relative to 1/4 inch. Think Sam has some 1/2 inch tapes too.

As far as the prosumer machines, I'm not so sure they have the room to accomodate 1/2 heads nor is the tape path is set up for the wider tape. Not at least on my Technics. But some good Nortonics heads go a long way toward bridging that gap.

 

[rbbert]

I guess it was Bruce that had the Studer? I probably got the machines/rooms confused.

None of that changes the fact that it's entirely possible for tape to sound worse than CD; there are just too many other factors at play.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I guess it was Bruce that had the Studer? I probably got the machines/rooms confused.

None of that changes the fact that it's entirely possible for tape to sound worse than CD; there are just too many other factors at play.

I can't remember and the RMAF pics are on my old, now off, computer

Bruce either brings a Studer or Ampex. I don't know why but I think Bruce brought a Ampex ATR-102/Aria in 2011 to RMAF? I think the year before it was a Studer 810?

 

[Mosin]

When I was there the Studer wasn't playing, but the Spiral Groove was, and it was spot on. The problems I heard were further down in the chain, but I admit that they were not really that severe. Rather, they didn't allow the TADs to strut their stuff to their maximum. In fact, the small TADs in Andrew's small room sounded much better.

 

[rbbert]

There was an Ampex ATR in Jtinn's EA room and a different machine down the hall in Bruce's room with the Ushers.

 

[Bruce B]

2O10 I brought an A810 and we had an ATR-102 with Aria in Jtinn room. Last year I had my 1/4" A80 in the Usher room. This year I'll be bringing a 1/2" A80.

All of our machines have JRF Flux Magnetics ER heads on them.

 

[MylesBAstor]

2O10 I brought an A810 and we had an ATR-102 with Aria in Jtinn room. Last year I had my 1/4" A80 in the Usher room. This year I'll be bringing a 1/2" A80.

All of our machines have JRF Flux Magnetics ER heads on them.

Thanks for the clarification Bruce. At that age where one year blends into the next

 

[mep]

I’ve said it before, but I will say it again. Last year at the RMAF getting to hang out in Jonathan’s room with Mike Spitz playing 30 ips tapes was a big highlight of the show for me. Hearing Louis Armstrong’s version of St. James Infirmary at 30 ips was just incredible. And Jonathan’s $2500 EA speakers are the real deal.

 

[rbbert]

Can't help but agree with those sentiments.

 

[Steve williams]

I can also affirm that. Mep and I went back several times

 

[herb]

Jane and I will be going and would like to join the group if there is room.
After staying a few days in Denver to see the great museums, we'll drive to Salina KS for Chad Kassem's Blues Fest.

Herb

 

[Mike Lavigne]

+1 on Jonathan's room at last year's RMAF.

and first the "bad news"....my MM7's are delayed yet again until mid-October ( delivery 15th or 16th approx) for the main towers, and 2 weeks later for the bass towers.

the "good news" is that since the speakers won't arrive until after RMAF, i'm going now. staying at the Hilton next door to the Marriott. Thursday night thru Sunday afternoon.

it will be easier to wait if i join in the fun in Denver.

 

[audioarcher]

The more the merrier Mike. The show should take your mind off it for a few days.

 

[garylkoh]

I haven't been watching this thread as unfortunately I won't be able to make it to RMAF this year - way too much travelling and many shows I'm doing!

I recommended The Bent Fork for last year's dinner but it sounds like the place will be too small for this year. You might want to consider The Bonefish Grill in Greenwood - that will be definitely large enough, food was good and service excellent. I use it for my "victory dinner" after clean-up on the last day of the show as it also opens late (or rather they've never kicked us out).

 

[TheAudioAssociation]

Count me in! Thursday night through Sunday afternoon!