Ron’s New System

[Al M.]

I installed the third AVAA today, thanks to Jason Hanan, of Pro Audio LA, delivering it to me today himself. Jason arrived right after Gary Leeds arrived for his first visit.

Every time I thought I heard the telltale room boom from a double bass, they both said "nope, that is what a double bass sounds like."

Yup. I thought double bass sound excellent in your system, the best I've heard. It does have this warm, round "bloom", especially close up, which could be mistaken for room boom.

I also disagree with a friend about the double bass on one recording where he thinks it's overdone in bloom. No, I don't think it is. However, if a bass guitar would sound like that, I'd say "Houston, we have a problem".

I know I still should move the woofer towers around to mitigate naturally the room nodes, but these AVAAs are quite effective, and I think three provide good efficacy in my room. It's pretty cool to have a device like this that you plug-in, and it does its thing, and it ameliorates an acoustic issue like a room node.

I now consider the room boom issues substantially vanquished.

Excellent, great to hear!

 

[pjwd]

L

I installed the third AVAA today, thanks to Jason Hanan, of Pro Audio LA, delivering it to me today himself. Jason arrived right after Gary Leeds arrived for his first visit.

Every time I thought I heard the telltale room boom from a double bass, they both said "nope, that is what a double bass sounds like."

I know I still should move the woofer towers around to mitigate naturally the room nodes, but these AVAAs are quite effective, and I think three provide good efficacy in my room. It's pretty cool to have a device like this that you plug-in, and it does its thing, and it ameliorates an acoustic issue like a room node.

I now consider the room boom issues substantially vanquished.

Thats great Ron .. I am betting a bit of speaker moving will get rid of that slight dip you have at 300hz or so and the bass will not seem so prominent .. that has been exactly my experience.
It is amazing how multiple reflections that end up being half a wavelenght out of sync on and either side of a particular frequency can add up to a significantly long dip. Its quite complex and can be a head scratcher .. all you can do is optimize.
In any case you are clearly already getting great sound .. fiddling with speaker positions can be the cream

 

[PeterA]

Every time I thought I heard the telltale room boom from a double bass, they both said "nope, that is what a double bass sounds like."

This is precisely why some people reference the sound of live acoustic music when evaluating a system. Your friends provided a reality check.

I now consider the room boom issues substantially vanquished.

It will be interesting to see the new measurements from the listening seat to see how they correspond to what you hear. Do you think the sound improvement can be caught on video? Congratulation on your progress.

 

[Ron Resnick]

This is precisely why some people reference the sound of live acoustic music when evaluating a system. Your friends provided a reality check.

I agree!

It will be interesting to see the new measurements from the listening seat to see how they correspond to what you hear.

I am very curious to see the new measurement, too!

Do you think the sound improvement can be caught on video?

I am skeptical that it can be caught on video. Overemphasized, one-note bass caused by the room mode should be able to be captured. But I don't think the microphone does a good job of capturing room acoustics.

Congratulation on your progress.

Thank you!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thats great Ron .. I am betting a bit of speaker moving will get rid of that slight dip you have at 300hz or so and the bass will not seem so prominent ..

Very possible! Gary Leeds also made the correct observation that adjusting the distance between the panels and the front wall affects the phase cancellation of the dipole panels. That, too, might affect the slight dip around 300Hz.

fiddling with speaker positions can be the cream

I agree!

 

[JackD201]

I installed the third AVAA today, thanks to Jason Hanan, of Pro Audio LA, delivering it to me today himself. Jason arrived right after Gary Leeds arrived for his first visit.

Every time I thought I heard the telltale room boom from a double bass, they both said "nope, that is what a double bass sounds like."

I know I still should move the woofer towers around to mitigate naturally the room nodes, but these AVAAs are quite effective, and I think three provide good efficacy in my room. It's pretty cool to have a device like this that you plug-in, and it does its thing, and it ameliorates an acoustic issue like a room node.

I now consider the room boom issues substantially vanquished.

I remember many years ago Keith and I flew into HK late at night and the only place we could grab a bite in Central without having to get back in a cab was at the bar of our hotel. So seated at the bar we were snacking heavily on oysters and mini wagyu sliders washed down with Hibikis and a double bass begins to play. I said Keith, if that is the sound system playing, I will sell all of my gear and turn my listening room into a game room. He said it's a live trio. I'm still in the hobby LOL

 

[pjwd]

Very possible! Gary Leeds also made the correct observation that adjusting the distance between the panels and the front wall affects the phase cancellation of the dipole panels. That, too, might affect the slight dip around 300Hz.


I agree!

Thats true but a single length reflection will result in a very sharp notch .. arguably we dont really notice those .. but as a first reflection it will be the strongest and then reflections off the wall,ceiling, back wall and multiples of the above around that length will just add to that breadth and depth of cancelation. A half wavelength of 300 hz is about 2ft so you have to look at reflections that have around that distance between the direct sound and reflected sound or have odd multiples of that distance
So side to side is important movement as well.

 

[tima]

Back in May you said:

Nah, I never remotely suggested I knew anything about acoustic instruments.

Then today:

Every time I thought I heard the telltale room boom from a double bass, they both said "nope, that is what a double bass sounds like."

You might consider checking around Hollywood for a community college or local small orchestra where you could sit in on a rehersal or practice to get a chance at observing and listening to different string and other acoustic instruments. The opportunity to sit close to instruments/musicians then farther away might provide insight into how they sound in a space smaller than a concert hall. You might be able to correlate that to what you hear in your own room when adjusting speakers or acoustic treatment.

Or perhaps pay some student musicians for an hour of their time to demonstrate how different techniques in playing create different sounds. For example, a plucked double bass yields a different sound and resonance into its chamber than a bowed double bass. Same for other members of the string family. Then there are woodwinds, brass and percussion. Imo, better to learn from live musicians than a video or recording.

 

[morricab]

Back in May you said:


Then today:


You might consider checking around Hollywood for a community college or local small orchestra where you could sit in on a rehersal or practice to get a chance at observing and listening to different string and other acoustic instruments. The opportunity to sit close to instruments/musicians then farther away might provide insight into how they sound in a space smaller than a concert hall. You might be able to correlate that to what you hear in your own room when adjusting speakers or acoustic treatment.

Or perhaps pay some student musicians for an hour of their time to demonstrate how different techniques in playing create different sounds. For example, a plucked double bass yields a different sound and resonance into its chamber than a bowed double bass. Same for other members of the string family. Then there are woodwinds, brass and percussion. Imo, better to learn from live musicians than a video or recording.

This is a very good idea. When I was with my ex, the music conservatory in Zurich where she studied had free concerts of students playing every week. We frequently attended. The level was very high and acoustics in the small hall were good.
Likewise, the Zurich Jazz school had its own club with gigs 4 nights a week…also high level and good sound…but sometimes amplified.
ECM recording artist Nik Baertsch performs two Mondays a month at a club in Zurich called Exil…amazing performance and great sound…for 20 bucks!
Finally, there used to be a small jazz club called The Gig I frequented. There you sat almost within touching distance of the performers.
Up close live acoustic is closer to whats on most recordings than mid hall orchestra and IMO gives a better template for what our recordings should sound like.

 

[Al M.]

This is a very good idea. When I was with my ex, the music conservatory in Zurich where she studied had free concerts of students playing every week. We frequently attended. The level was very high and acoustics in the small hall were good.
Likewise, the Zurich Jazz school had its own club with gigs 4 nights a week…also high level and good sound…but sometimes amplified.
ECM recording artist Nik Baertsch performs two Mondays a month at a club in Zurich called Exil…amazing performance and great sound…for 20 bucks!
Finally, there used to be a small jazz club called The Gig I frequented. There you sat almost within touching distance of the performers.
Up close live acoustic is closer to whats on most recordings than mid hall orchestra and IMO gives a better template for what our recordings should sound like.

Very nice opportunities to hear live music up close. I've had a few of them too.

Your last sentence makes an important point.

 

[Argonaut]

Finally, there used to be a small jazz club called The Gig I frequented. There you sat almost within touching distance of the performers.
Up close live acoustic is closer to whats on most recordings than mid hall orchestra and IMO gives a better template for what our recordings should sound like.

Ronnie Scots many times over the years

 

[Ron Resnick]

Back in May you said:


Then today:


You might consider checking around Hollywood for a community college or local small orchestra where you could sit in on a rehersal or practice to get a chance at observing and listening to different string and other acoustic instruments. The opportunity to sit close to instruments/musicians then farther away might provide insight into how they sound in a space smaller than a concert hall. You might be able to correlate that to what you hear in your own room when adjusting speakers or acoustic treatment.

Or perhaps pay some student musicians for an hour of their time to demonstrate how different techniques in playing create different sounds. For example, a plucked double bass yields a different sound and resonance into its chamber than a bowed double bass. Same for other members of the string family. Then there are woodwinds, brass and percussion. Imo, better to learn from live musicians than a video or recording.

Thank you for this suggestion. I like this idea a lot. This is exactly the right answer to the problem.

Currently I'm bogged down with a number of issues, but if things ever clear up, I would like to pursue this.

 

[Beltane_sun]

als wir denken. Er liebt es, seine System-, Raum- und Klangergebnisse mit den Mitgliedern der Foren zu teilen, die er betreibt. Er liebt es, von Leuten in diesem Forum zu hören. Warum sollte er sich einen

 

[Alrainbow]

I have done the live venue and small clubs
If they have a pa it’s a total waist
nyc subways are good many musicians play down There.
Not on platforms but in halls of big stations
I never knew violins sound like mosquitos in a way
tone and timbre can be learned and needed.
but what can’t be is just how far away our systems are even if tine and timbre is correct.
The biggest take away is how much acoustic energy a real instrument has and how little our systems have.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The biggest take away is how much acoustic energy a real instrument has and how little our systems have.

+1

I think this is one reason that as audiophiles -- especially audiophiles who are mostly into jazz, or mostly into jazz and classical -- gain more audio system experience over time there sometimes is a pull toward horn loudspeakers.

 

[Alrainbow]

I think we’ll done horns is as close as we can get to real
but few horn setups are made or setup well.
to get the low end I feel we need cones amd a massive amp to power them. someone on here has a set up like this I think

 

[morricab]

I have done the live venue and small clubs
If they have a pa it’s a total waist
nyc subways are good many musicians play down There.
Not on platforms but in halls of big stations
I never knew violins sound like mosquitos in a way
tone and timbre can be learned and needed.
but what can’t be is just how far away our systems are even if tine and timbre is correct.
The biggest take away is how much acoustic energy a real instrument has and how little our systems have.

Yes, when you try to record them and find that even a single instrument in a modest space will overload easily your recorder of great care is not taken.

 

[Alrainbow]

But most here yet insulted to make comments there stuff is not real hahaha.

 

[Alrainbow]

A few years back at capital the vac von room had there massive towers when they played a cd on an esoteric transport and full stack with 4 large vac amps that was close to real

 

[Rexp]

Yes, when you try to record them and find that even a single instrument in a modest space will overload easily your recorder of great care is not taken.

Try a 32bit float recorder, apparently they are impossible to overload.