Ron’s New System

[Ron Resnick]

As far as I see it has an output line transformer - not exactly native SE.



Also uses signal transformers and output line transformers.
Not very low output impedance, the manufacturer site says: Output Impedance: 1KOhms, XLR and RCA

I knew you were just looking for arguments (as usual), which is why I was hesitate even to respond to your comment.

Merely having an output transformer, without more, does not make a natively single-ended circuit a balanced circuit. By "natively single-ended" I mean (i) the circuit does not use a balancing input transformer or an unbalancing output transformer, and (ii) the circuit is not truly differential from input to output (where both positive and negative are processed internally with no reference to ground from input to output).

In a natively single-ended design the signal is always referenced to ground throughout the circuit.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Not very low output impedance, the manufacturer site says: Output Impedance: 1KOhms, XLR and RCA

This is why the Lara does not satisfy exactly each of the stated preferred conditions.

 

[microstrip]

I knew you were just looking for arguments (as usual), which is why I was hesitate even to respond to your comment.

In my parlance an OPT does not make a natively single-ended circuit a balanced circuit. By "natively single-ended" I mean either (i) the circuit does not use a balancing input transformer or an unbalancing output transformer, and (ii) the circuit is not truly differential from input to output (where both positive and negative are processed internally with no reference to ground).

Thanks - but you misinterpret my intentions - as usual, because you create your own "native" ambiguous nomenclature. An output transformer is intrinsically balanced - but if you ground one of the output taps you can use it in SE mode. I see now you just want to avoid differential circuits.

My main reason for posting was just helping you do define what you want - your long SE cables are in reality a complex problem to most tube preamplfiers . Their total capacitance can not be ignored and you risk creating resonances (possible ringing) close to the audio band when using them with transformers and improper load.

BTW, I asked for numbers because in my acceptation very low was less than 50 ohms and you were pointing a preamp with 1000 ohms - 20 times more - in fact an exceptionally high output impedance.

 

[morricab]

Thanks - but you misinterpret my intentions - as usual, because you create your own "native" ambiguous nomenclature. An output transformer is intrinsically balanced - but if you ground one of the output taps you can use it in SE mode. I see now you just want to avoid differential circuits.

My main reason for posting was just helping you do define what you want - your long SE cables are in reality a complex problem to most tube preamplfiers . Their total capacitance can not be ignored and you risk creating resonances (possible ringing) close to the audio band when using them with transformers and improper load.

BTW, I asked for numbers because in my acceptation very low was less than 50 ohms and you were pointing a preamp with 1000 ohms - 20 times more - in fact an exceptionally high output impedance.

Incito S has an output impedance of <50 ohms. In its -6dB settings its output impedance is 12 ohms.
The active circuit is a single tube per channel that is used in a single ended configuration not balanced or push/pull. So, even if used as balanced output, which of course you can do with it, the circuit is native single ended.

 

[Alrainbow]

I asked for a simple reason , long cable runs on an se pre out is not a good way to proceed
You can use a bal cable topology and keep both single wires with the shield around them. But this i don't think works well on longer runs . It seems you have made up your mind on se
And I don't know what your results might be.
A tube rectification has its own effects and a rectification tubes dies as you use it.
If you go tubes you really only have two ways to block the dc on the output but I maybe wrong.
Some feel a transformer on the output limits the freq response of the preamp in feed back.
Caps are more common.
But to add se and long runs is a difficult combo.
Bal yields a higher output voltage but also doubles the output imp.
I own a ml no 26 preamp , the rated output imp is about 600 ohms. Even on bal outputs 40 feet that I needed had a negative effect.

 

[Ron Resnick]

My main reason for posting was just helping you do define what you want - your long SE cables are in reality a complex problem to most tube preamplfiers .

Thank you, yes I agree.

Their total capacitance can not be ignored and you risk creating resonances (possible ringing) close to the audio band when using them with transformers and improper load.

BTW, I asked for numbers because in my acceptation very low was less than 50 ohms

I agree 50 ohms is "very low."

and you were pointing a preamp with 1000 ohms - 20 times more - in fact an exceptionally high output impedance.

Nonetheless the Lara sounded wonderful.

The Incito S output impedance is 50 ohms.

 

[bonzo75]

Ron has not told us if that video represents the sound of his system. He did not share it here, and we do not know his purpose in posting it on Facebook.

If it does represent the sound of a system, I could share my opinion, but Ron has not asked for it. You simply found it, copied it, and posted it here without any commentary or permission. It has to be driven by Ron or it is idyl speculation and useless chattering.

He never thinks videos represent sound of any system.

If a video is up on FB, it is a public video, no permission is required. It is no different from linking things to another forum or magazine article

 

[Ron Resnick]

I don't think I have ever listened for three nights in a row in my entire life. Four hours on Thursday, two hours last night, and three and a half hours tonight I'm pretty sure is an all-time record for solo listening time for me over three days.

I guess I'm pretty happy with how this thing is sounding at the moment.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think I may want to think about upgrading the Baltic 4 to a Pacific 2 or to a Poseidon. But I will use only single-ended connections, and I don't need the preamp in the Poseidon. I know the Pacific 3 is balanced + preamp.

 

[Ron Resnick]

So, Peter, the selected path to a largely finished system (except for maybe some cable experimentation) is:

-- new preamp

-- Mastersound PF100s or Jadis JA120s

-- upgrade to Auditoriums

 

[Sampajanna]

I think I may want to think about upgrading the Baltic 4 to a Pacific 2 or to a Poseidon. But I will use only single-ended connections, and I don't need the preamp in the Poseidon. I know the Pacific 3 is balanced + preamp.

Why not Horizon, Ron?

 

[bonzo75]

So, Peter, the selected path to a largely finished system (except for maybe some cable experimentation) is:

-- new preamp

-- Mastersound PF100s or Jadis JA120s

-- upgrade to Auditoriums

So new preamp, PF100, and cable experimentation is more box swapping, which you deny being interested in.

 

[Johan K]

I don't think I have ever listened for three nights in a row in my entire life. Four hours on Thursday, two hours last night, and three and a half hours tonight I'm pretty sure is an all-time record for solo listening time for me over three days.

I guess I'm pretty happy with how this thing is sounding at the moment.

Love to hear, congratulations Ron.

So just for your information… I can be so into listening some days, I can spend up to 12-13 hours in a row listening in my room, and not feeling tired or bored. The sound is mesmerizing. That is why I am pretty satisfied with what I have here, and don’t see any reason for changing anything…. Go figure.

/ Jk

 

[Johan K]

So, Peter, the selected path to a largely finished system (except for maybe some cable experimentation) is:

-- new preamp

-- Mastersound PF100s or Jadis JA120s

-- upgrade to Auditoriums

Is your plan to sell off your complete Pendragon speaker system ?

 

[DasguteOhr]

No, erroneous that I am searching for something. I have the target.

Questions about wires?

I've talked about my "alternative fantasy amplifier" for years.

On the preamp I conducted a very fun hobby search project. I haven't thought about preamps in many years, so it was fun to research, and to talk to people, and to audition three candidates at home. Because of my very long interconnect run and natively single-ended amplifiers I wanted a preamp with:

-- very low output impedance,

-- tube-rectified power supply,

-- high output voltage,

-- all-tube design,

-- natively single-ended circuit,

-- gain of around 14dB to 20dB, and

-- remote control greatly preferred (A remote control was not quite essential, but there would have to be an awfully good reason to get a preamp without a remote control, given that my preamp is in a different room.)

Manley Neo-Classic 300B Preamplifier RC — Manley Laboratories, Inc.

Manley Labs' most esoteric product is THE 300B PREAMPLlFIER.

www.manley.com

Thats a good solution for your request.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Why not Horizon, Ron?

too expensive

 

[Sampajanna]

too expensive

Touché!

 

[LarryK]

Hi Larry,

Can you please remove this from my system thread and start your own system thread?

This is not a general "post your video" thread. Thank you.

Sorry, Ron, I believe I deleted the posts. Let me know if I have not. I also created my own thread.

We are moving to France in the summer. I’ll be able to hear Edith Piaf live.

Throw on some Billie Holiday.

 

[Argonaut]

I’ll be able to hear Edith Piaf live.

That would be quite some trick to pull off !

 

[Johan K]

That would be quite some trick to pull off !

Yeah — R E A L L Y !!!!!!