(...) And yet, the modern gear sounds just as different from one another as gear did in the past, despite the supposed advances you state. What would be then your explanation for hearing these differences? Our imagination? If real and not distortion, then what?

Yes, they sound even more different than gear from the past! As I said before we do not know the theory behind the reasons for these differences, no current studies were carried on these low level artifacts affect sound in stereo systems. In the high-end we rely on our subjective perception of the effect of these differences.
 
And if it does in fact work like that (based on what I have read it doesn’t) ? Wouldn’t you still prefer the one that sounds that way over the one perceptually lacking flow, nuance and note completion…even if it measures orders of magnitude worse?

It is not hard to see that even in the absence of theory and science on the high-end we have excellently sounding and poorly sounding gear with top measurements - as they say, the development of steam engines predated the formal science of thermodynamics.

Surely our readers would love to consider what you have read - did you get something new since we addressed the topic before?
 
..... So while pleasing, an SET (unless imbued with properly applied feedback) can never be accurate or neutral. But for many its 'if this is wrong I don't want to be right'.
I agree. I don't think a lot of people really want "the absolute sound" that is true to the original. I could have a live string quartet playing in my listening room and I think if I invited groups of listeners most people would say it sounds too bright and that the strings aren't silky enough or its too (pick your favorite adjective). A lot are shooting for some type of "fantasy" sound.

Unfortunately, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want warm, lush etc. (What I would call blurry) you can't complain about the lack of resolution and transparency. Pick a lane.
 

Another very successful sounding AC setup with planars...this time Alsyvox.

And yet, the modern gear sounds just as different from one another as gear did in the past, despite the supposed advances you state. What would be then your explanation for hearing these differences? Our imagination? If real and not distortion, then what?
Excellent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: morricab
Having owned the LL1 and the L2 ref my own subjective opinion is that the LL1 (all tubes) had higher resolution than L2ref (solid state with tubed power supply) and both reduced the resolution of the dCS Vivaldi stack. IMO, YMMV.
But probably enhanced the enjoyment factor by 10x over the DCS stack direct.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: adyc and Lagonda
I agree. I don't think a lot of people really want "the absolute sound" that is true to the original. I could have a live string quartet playing in my listening room and I think if I invited groups of listeners most people would say it sounds too bright and that the strings aren't silky enough or its too (pick your favorite adjective). A lot are shooting for some type of "fantasy" sound.

Unfortunately, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want warm, lush etc. (What I would call blurry) you can't complain about the lack of resolution and transparency. Pick a lane.
I’ve had live string quartets in my living room and no one said any of the ridiculous things you posted. A live quartet in the room just blows you away…
 
I agree. I don't think a lot of people really want "the absolute sound" that is true to the original. I could have a live string quartet playing in my listening room and I think if I invited groups of listeners most people would say it sounds too bright and that the strings aren't silky enough or its too (pick your favorite adjective). A lot are shooting for some type of "fantasy" sound.

Unfortunately, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want warm, lush etc. (What I would call blurry) you can't complain about the lack of resolution and transparency. Pick a lane.

Avantgarde playing digital through SS will sound bright. Only so much lipstick you can put on it. I can understand in such a system why you think tubes only help colouring
 
Unfortunately, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want warm, lush etc. (What I would call blurry) you can't complain about the lack of resolution and transparency. Pick a lane.

Are you suggesting that a system cannot exhibit both qualities? A system can not sound both transparent or resolving and warm or lush?
 
Last edited:
Are you suggesting that a system cannot exhibit both qualities? A system can not sound both transparent or resolving and warm or lush?
It can!
Avantgarde playing digital through SS will sound bright. Only so much lipstick you can put on it. I can understand in such a system why you think tubes only help colouring
That really depends on the digital and the amp. FWIW AvantGardes were originally designed using a solid state amp.
 
Are you suggesting that a system cannot exhibit both qualities? A system can not sound both transparent or resolving and warm or lush?

He has CH trios and has videos you can hear the compromises
 
It can!

That really depends on the digital and the amp. FWIW AvantGardes were originally designed using a solid state amp.
Yes I am aware I visited the factory twice and also compared the SS amps with valve
 
Are you suggesting that a system cannot exhibit both qualities? A system can not sound both transparent or resolving and warm or lush?
i only want warm and lush when the musical content is warm and lush. we especially want to avoid warm and lush as any sort of overlay or sameness. no smoothing or rounding. we do want transparent and resolving, but also full bodied, liquid and continuous and not grainy or bleached.

solid state can be all those things, but not typically.
 
i only want warm and lush when the musical content is warm and lush. we especially want to avoid warm and lush as any sort of overlay or sameness. no smoothing or rounding. we do want transparent and resolving, but also full bodied, liquid and continuous and not grainy or bleached.

solid state can be all those things, but not typically.
Can a tube do those things? Whats the best tube.or circuit, In Your Opinion, of course.
 
i only want warm and lush when the musical content is warm and lush. we especially want to avoid warm and lush as any sort of overlay or sameness. no smoothing or rounding. we do want transparent and resolving, but also full bodied, liquid and continuous and not grainy or bleached.

solid state can be all those things, but not typically.

I’m describing the presentation of musical content. A transparent system can portray the sound of a cello as warm and lush. That does not mean the system is warm and lush.

Ron however, has described his goals. One of them is having a lower tonal center of gravity. He also seems to have a strong preference for tubes in his own system and chooses speakers which in theory are fairly transparent and resolving. This is his system thread, but a lot of people seem to be describing things that they themselves like.
 
Last edited:
Can a tube do those things? Whats the best tube.or circuit, In Your Opinion, of course.

The point is if you put a good SET that is transparent on a speaker it cannot drive it will sound flabby bloated slow and rolled off, and the scholars on this forum will call it coloured, because they did not use the properly matched great to judge in the first place. This is the same if you do not match a cartridge gain to the phono
 
Yes I am aware I visited the factory twice and also compared the SS amps with valve
There are a lot of solid state amps out there. When designing for solid state, the speaker is designed to be Voltage driven, which is to say that the amp can behave as a Voltage source. Most solid state amps can do that, but some are bright (in particular older designs) and some are not.

Put another way there are a lot of variables here and just because you heard one solid state amp on them (or even 10) does not mean that all solid state amps are bright on Avantgardes.
Can a tube do those things? Whats the best tube.or circuit, In Your Opinion, of course.
I know you didn't ask me but yes tubes can do that.
The point is if you put a good SET that is transparent on a speaker it cannot drive it will sound flabby bloated slow and rolled off, and the scholars on this forum will call it coloured, because they did not use the properly matched great to judge in the first place. This is the same if you do not match a cartridge gain to the phono
Even if you put it on a speaker that an SET can drive easily it will sound colored (due to its excessive distortion) next to better amps, tube or solid state. What most people don't get about PP if they are into SETs is that the best PP amps of similar power to an SET will easily beat the SET by any metric audiophiles find valuable.
 
Can a tube do those things?
i think so.
Whats the best tube.or circuit, In Your Opinion, of course.
i've heard few tube circuits that were able to; but my tube circuit experience is somewhat limited so not sure it's comprehensive enough. but i would say that my silver wound EMIA Phono Corrector + Slagle silver SUT MC Trio is very neutral and matches the purity of the darTZeel electronics. or rather it's close enough to be 'of a piece' with it. and that is a big ask.

not saying it's the best or perfect or anything like that, but it avoids sameness or colored presentation and also get's out of the way of the music effectively. it is similarly balanced in presentation and like the darts does not call attention to itself. yet still sucks you in and propels the music.

of course; my hot-rodded Nuvistor tubed Ampex MR-70 tape preamps are pretty awesome and are not in any way colored. they are also 'of a piece' with the darts.
 
Last edited:

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing