Ron’s New System

[Scott Naylor]

Kevin Scott from Living Voice UK :


The room is always a significant part of the sound. Only part of what you hear comes directly from the speakers, and the rest is the reverberant field of the room. The sound characteristic of the reverberant field is dictated first by the 'off-axis' behaviour of the speaker, and then by the dimensions and materials that the room is made of and its' contents. There is a complicated science to this - almost unfathomably complicated so an academic approach is best left to professional acousticians - and in my experience they usually revert to the best approach which is intuition with trial and error. Experience obviously helps.


A common mistake is to attack the situation with purely absorptive, deadening room treatment. These invariably operate over a wide bandwidth so that whilst they subdue your target problematic frequency range, they also subdue everything else as well and kill the life and space and freedom in the sound-world.


Sound can be absorbed, reflected, or diffused…the latter two usually bring the results you seek.


Bass traps in the corners can be useful 'IF' there is a bass / standing wave problem. I have heard them make some rooms worse, tread cautiously and make one step at a time.


Put them in and then take them out and see how this feels. Back corners are as effective as front corners, you do not necessarily need to treat all of them. Dealing with mid and HF emphasis or confusion is best done using scattering and diffusion. This is why when we do an exhibition in an unknown room, we like to get there a day or so early to let the system settle down and then we can pay attention to how the room behaves with scattering and diffusion.


Your room has the first reflected wave off the floor damped by a rug. This is usually my first listening experiment and only rarely have I thought it detracted. Usually everything improves.


The glass between and behind the speakers is a nice thing to have. In rooms with heavy drapes, I usually find much better spatial coherence with the drapes left open. It is probably good to experiment with some scattering and absorption at the back of the room as well as in the back corners. Not bass traps but reflective and 'scattery' surfaces angled across the corners such as book cases, LP and CD storage. Acoustic phase arrays that are relatively deeply pocketed…deeper than the phase arrays that you see at the sides of rooms can be very useful and look nice. Inexpensive as well.

We should add Kevin Scott to our list of Audiophile Expert?

 

[tima]

We should add Kevin Scott to our list of Audiophile Expert?

Google

 

[Ron Resnick]

it sounds very lively but to me a little prominent in upper registers of piano and a bit recessed in the mid bass

I hear exactly this as well when I listen on the iPhone. When I listened via modest headphones and when I listened in my car the tonal balance is approximately representative of what I hear in the room.

Do you have this recording yourself in some form? There's a lot of upper midrange energy in the recording, and the upper registers of the piano are fairly prominent in the recording, I think.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Perhaps it's literally as simple as the ribbon drivers in the speakers and the cables and everything else have continued to break in and settle down. I am just not hearing the upper midrange brightness anymore.

We listened to the entirety of Dido's No Angel album last night. I heard no upper midrange brightness, and, as you know, I am focused on this upper midrange brightness issue.

David Blumenstein has been staying with me since Friday. He now has by far the most ear time on the system of any visitor.

I do not want to speak for David, but he has indicated to me that he has not heard any upper midrange brightness problem.

David brought over today Grover Neville, whom I had the pleasure of meeting for the first time. Grover studied at the Oberlin Conservatory of Music. He is a recording engineer, a musician and an artist, as well as a high-end audio reviewer. He's much younger than we are, and he likely has most, if not all, of his hearing range intact.


I inflicted upon Grover my usual speech that "only criticism of the sound of the system is helpful; praise is not." Grover was with us for only an hour or so, but he did not report any upper midrange brightness. Grover actually commented that the tonal balance of the system is, if anything, a little bit "warm" for his taste.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Woofer level: depending on personal subjective woofer level preference and depending on the recording, I am finding that I float between -2.5 and -4.0 on the woofer level setting.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,
it sounds very lively but to me a little prominent in upper registers of piano

I found on Qobuz a different recording by Ray Brown Trio of a different performance of "That's All" on Soular Energy.


[https://open.qobuz.com/track/504073

Even on the different recording of a different performance of "That's All" I think those upper registers of piano are quite prominent. I'm beginning to think that if a stereo system doesn't reproduce the prominent upper registers of the piano here in a very lively way it is rolling off the higher frequencies.

 

[pjwd]

I found on Qobuz a different recording by Ray Brown Trio of a different performance of "That's All" on Soular Energy.


[https://open.qobuz.com/track/504073

Even on the different recording of a different performance of "That's All" I think those upper registers of piano are quite prominent. I'm beginning to think that if a stereo system doesn't reproduce the prominent upper registers of the piano here in a very lively way it is rolling off the higher frequencies.

Ouch
I did listen to the other version and it sounds more balanced to me than the recording of your system. It may well be the recording.
Just out of interest have you played the recording back through your gear ?

Regardless if all are happy with the balance then thats great.. especially the owner !
BTW I find bass to be the most variable component of recordings, many albums are mastered on gear that is not full range and its all a mystery down there.
Its frustrating when you think you have the sweet spot and then an album with overblown bass pops up ( or are the others underblown)

Cheers
Phil

 

[Gregadd]

For me this recording is quite representative of Ray Browns talent. Especially when the strings are drawn withe the bow. The first cut has eery bass on the jazz classic 'Round Midnight. It also kind of a classic chamber music flavor.
MOONLIGHT SERENADE
Ray Brown and Laurenda Almeida

Available onTidal

I agree that bass is the linchpin of a good speaker even if it starts to roll off off at 60hz.
Enjoy the music.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

For me this recording is quite representative of Ray Browns talent. Especially when the strings are drawn withe the bow. The first cut has eery bass on the jazz classic 'Round Midnight. It also kind of a classic chamber music flavor.
MOONLIGHT SERENADE
Ray Brown and Laurenda Almeida

Available onTidal

I agree that bass is the linchpin of a good speaker even if it starts to roll off off at 60hz.
Enjoy the music.

not on the Jeton direct to disc pressing. you need to hear this pressing on a good system to get deep bass.

that 'Tidal' digital might be a transfer from the tape (made by Clearaudio from the dtd pressing, who then pressed tape sourced vinyl), or it might be a direct transfer from the dtd pressing. there are any number of digital files from various sources out there.

don't bother with the second gen Clearaudio pressing. get the d-t-d or the digital.

the music is actually a combo of Beethoven's 'Moonlight Sonata' and Monk's 'Round Midnight'. it's a stunning performance and recording, by 2 masters, especially with the dtd. so many times direct to disc misses the mark musically......this time it hits it out of the park.

 

[PeterA]

not on the Jeton direct to disc pressing. you need to hear this pressing on a good system to get deep bass.

that 'Tidal' digital might be a transfer from the tape (made by Clearaudio from the dtd pressing, who then pressed tape sourced vinyl), or it might be a direct transfer from the dtd pressing. there are any number of digital files from various sources out there.

don't bother with the second gen Clearaudio pressing. get the d-t-d or the digital.

the music is actually a combo of Beethoven's 'Moonlight Sonata' and Monk's 'Round Midnight'. it's a stunning performance and recording, by 2 masters, especially with the dtd. so many times direct to disc misses the mark musically......this time it hits it out of the park.

you are spot on Mike.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Its frustrating when you think you have the sweet spot and then an album with overblown bass pops up ( or are the others underblown)

Cheers
Phil

I understand. We certainly don't want to "EQ" recording by recording

At some point it's "pencils down" (for me, anyway).

 

[Al M.]

I understand. We certainly don't want to "EQ" recording by recording

At some point it's "pencils down" (for me, anyway).

Agreed. While previously I adjusted my subwoofers by recording, now after a number of improvements to the system I have arrived at a setting that I do not touch. Only once in a while I may use the tone control of my preamp to adjust for anemic bass on some rock recordings, but those are rare cases. My default is bypassing the tone control entirely.

 

[Gregadd]

You have tone controls on your preamp?Good for you.

 

[R Johnson]

Ron,

This may not be the right thread, but...
I think you were planning to hear the Mozart Jupiter symphony at the Walt Disney Concert Hall this last weekend. If so,your thoughts?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,


I think you were planning to hear the Mozart Jupiter symphony at the Walt Disney Concert Hall this last weekend. If so,your thoughts?

Thoughts about what?

 

[R Johnson]

Thoughts about what?

For one, last row orchestra vs first row orchestra. I thought that the last row would be a better overall acoustic experience. Of course the music performed in the two concerts you mentioned are radically different.

 

[Audiohertz2]

My suggestion would be row 7-10 center hall very similar and close to where recording mics would be placed ..!



Regards

 

[Ron Resnick]

For one, last row orchestra vs first row orchestra. I thought that the last row would be a better overall acoustic experience. Of course the music performed in the two concerts you mentioned are radically different.

Between the two seating locations I much prefer the first row orchestra. The last row orchestra was too diffuse for me.

I think my ideal seat is the center of the last row of the very first orchestra section -- so 7or 8 rows back from the first row.

 

[tony22]

Also depends on the venue and the performance. At the Kimmel Center for the Philadelphia Orchestra, depending on the pieces being played I’d select seats from Rows H through N, but always orchestra center. Unless it was Beethoven’s Ninth or Mahler’s Symphony of a Thousand. For pieces of that magnitude I’d settle in from N through P.

 

[R Johnson]

The people attending classical concerts have different preferences or reasons for buying specific seats. Which is very good for ticket sales!

My top criteria is to be able to SEE each instrument in the orchestra, and get some of its direct sound, not blocked by anything else. That generally means a balcony type seat in front of the stage.

The first row orchestra is the last seat I'd pick. Here in Chicago, that's the cheapest ticket. That is certainly not the case at Disney.

BTW, I heard the CSO performing the Mahler 9th symphony last night (after hearing it on Thursday).