Room Play: Part 1
- Thread starter Lee
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Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
that's what I said...I thought
As stated my set up now defies all Wilson algorithms . My ratio is between 0.88 -0.90 so I am just inside the triangle
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Out of interest I might add that the best Wilson set up I ever heard was a few years ago at Alma Music in San Diego when I visited Alex to hear the Alexia 2 . It ws set up in their large listening room and when I sat down. the first thing I noticed was that I was sitting in the sweet spot but inside the triangle. I questioned Alex about his set up and he stated that he and Fabio did the set up entirely by moving the speakers 1/4" at a time until they both agreed on where they sounded best. Interestingly their ratio was also 0.8. Shortly thereafter ddk visited and set up my van den hut cartridge. After we were done we sat down to listen. David slowly moved around my room and then sat himself down and said, "this is the the spot where your room is totally removed from the equation." When I measured the ratio was exactly 0.88 Presently where I sit , the ratio varies between 0.88-1.0. My upper modules were changed to suit a provided algorithm in the Wilson manual and I have zero issues with sound stage or size of singers and instruments etc.
+1 on ceiling treatments especially since I have 30° angled eaves from midline apex. Has been crucial to approaching an endgame sound.
Jim uses a Leica laser device to measure the room and the center mark is simply half the width. Then in the back of the room he attaches another laser that projects the red laser line across the room for positioning the listening chair then a tripod with a vertical card between the speakers. Once you have that center card, you have an ultra precise way to measure speaker distance from the center of the room. He also places a piece of masking tape on the wall and traces a line based on the projected red laser line. That is useful for positioning the GIK panels.
Plus signs in cards at the top of the tweeter modules and below the speaker tweeters are then installed to create a target for the Leica measuring device.
We were able to use all of the above to precisely note original speaker location which was remarkably dead on which was not surprising since Peter McGrath set them up.
All we did was adjust the width apart which paid big sonic dividends.
In the X over Y ratio, Jim’s vast experience in setting up Wilson speakers is that 82-84% is the ideal range.
But the biggest tool in his three bags of setup gear is his ears. He has 95+ tracks of go-to music which allows him to test all sorts of things from soundstage depth and width to dynamics to bass response, all subjectively.
It is a really valuable, programmatic way to optimize the room. Jim is just twenty minutes away from me and he has a detached garage that is a purpose-built listening room. It is simply breathtaking how good his 16/44 tracks sound in that space. The bass is among the best I have heard.
But the biggest tool in his three bags of setup gear is his ears. He has 95+ tracks of go-to music which allows him to test all sorts of things from soundstage depth and width to dynamics to bass response, all subjectively.
It is a really valuable, programmatic way to optimize the room. Jim is just twenty minutes away from me and he has a detached garage that is a purpose-built listening room. It is simply breathtaking how good his 16/44 tracks sound in that space. The bass is among the best I have heard.
Nice to know. Maybe you could publish an article about his listening room in TAS!
Lee, congratulations on your improved sound through the room play. Jim came to provide those services to me a number of years back and he made a tremendous improvement to my enjoyment of the music.
Perhaps you can clarify something for me. I recall the XY ratio. If I recall correctly, the X distance is tweeter center to tweeter center. But I can’t remember if the Y dimension is ear to tweeter or if it is center of head to a spot exactly centered between the two tweeters. Thank you.
One other question. Where did you end up with toe-in? Enjoying this thread! Thanks for starting it.
Tom
Tom
Much of this is covered in Jim's book "Get Better Sound". It seems he is very close to releasing the sequel "Through the Sound Barrier". Based on what he has said about it on his webpage it looks like it is going to have even more detail about speaker setup with specifics of what he listens for in each song he uses.
The tricky part is trying to describe to someone what something is supposed to sound like. It is similar to trying to explain what a steak tastes like to someone who has never tasted beef.
The tricky part is trying to describe to someone what something is supposed to sound like. It is similar to trying to explain what a steak tastes like to someone who has never tasted beef.
Just to point that we can get a brief description of Jim Smith method for locating the best listening position in the room ( the Anchor Position) in the PSAudio site : https://www.psaudio.com/copper/article/location-location-location/
Thank you. Jim measured from his right ear to the right speaker. Earlier on in the setup, he measured the distance from left ear to left speaker.
We are strongly considering that. It is an impressive system and room but surprisingly affordable.
Generally speaking we toed in until you could not see the speaker sides from the listening chair.
My friends Hugh and Jimmy came over for a listen today. I will let them chime in but I think they thought the latest upgrades were a big step forward.
But I just wanted to note that perhaps, even more than the music, the best part of the hobby is hanging out with good friends.
But I just wanted to note that perhaps, even more than the music, the best part of the hobby is hanging out with good friends.
I always listen and adjust the set-up based on what I hear, but more often than not, when I'm done, it'll be about 83%.
X is the distance from ear to tweeter. Y is tweeter-center to tweeter-center. FWIW - when Wilson's X is 1.2 and their Y is 1, it happens to equal 83.33%.
When I visited Lee, the sound was congested somewhat (for my taste), as the speakers were a bit too close together. As a point of reference, I measured them after listening briefly, and they were at 79% when I initially tested them, before readjusting them by ear.
It's all a matter of taste - for me, wider separation than - say, 84% - definitely yields more accurate imaging, but at the cost of a reduced ME factor - Musical Engagement.
X is the distance from ear to tweeter. Y is tweeter-center to tweeter-center. FWIW - when Wilson's X is 1.2 and their Y is 1, it happens to equal 83.33%.
When I visited Lee, the sound was congested somewhat (for my taste), as the speakers were a bit too close together. As a point of reference, I measured them after listening briefly, and they were at 79% when I initially tested them, before readjusting them by ear.
It's all a matter of taste - for me, wider separation than - say, 84% - definitely yields more accurate imaging, but at the cost of a reduced ME factor - Musical Engagement.
Fortunately I'm pretty close to Jim’s home as well. Locating everything precisely, things were pretty close to start with, but refining those points paid dividends without a doubt.
His attention to detail regarding getting an even bass response as well as the correct setting of gain from the REL 212s cleared up the slight congestion remaining.
The way he adjusts things focusing on the voices was interesting.
Additionally, and this is a big deal, my wife loves it as well. A little afraid she's going to ask me how to turn it on.
His attention to detail regarding getting an even bass response as well as the correct setting of gain from the REL 212s cleared up the slight congestion remaining.
The way he adjusts things focusing on the voices was interesting.
Additionally, and this is a big deal, my wife loves it as well. A little afraid she's going to ask me how to turn it on.
OMG...that is my audio nightmare! I have to reprogram the TV remote every other Netflix session. Happy Listening...
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