Room Play: Part 1

[Lee]

Jim Smith came over today to do some RoomPlay room setup work. It was quite a learning experience. We got some of the process accomplished today. Started out checking AC polarity, did some real time analyzer tests, and spent most of the time doing a precise alignment of the chair position, then finding the center line of the room, and then a precise marking of the original speaker position of the Alexia 2s. Jim was so knowledgeable and has clear expertise. he was meticulous in finding the center line and best position for the chair. RTA showed a minor dip at 45hz but overall good metrics for the room.

The big breakthrough though came with experimenting with the side to side spacing of the Alexia 2s which were already sounding pretty great. Using the X over Y formula which suggests that Wilsons should be 82-84% for X (distances of the speakers from center mark, summed) over Y (distance from the speakers). We were at almost a perfect 80% so we calculated we needed another 3" to get to 83%. So we moved both speakers 1.5" closer to the wall.

The speakers now presented an image that sounded fuller and quite a bit more open. It was really astonishing how the small moves made a large difference.

We still have more to do for Part 2, including acoustic polarity. More on that as it happens...

Room setup is turning out to be the great unsung component we all need.

Many thanks Jim for your help!

 

[Lee]

Late night listen while I do some excel work. Damn this sounds great!

It just sounds lifelike no matter what disc I spin, CD or LP. I am so happy how this project is going.

Next up is possibly experimenting with a few acoustic panels.

 

[Salectric]

Sounds like fun! Can you post some more photos of the room showing equipment etc?

 

[Steve Williams]

For me it is these little pearls that I love hearing about. I used an acoustician and have been very happy as well

One question regarding this statement

Using the X over Y formula which suggests that Wilsons should be 82-84% for X (distances of the speakers from center mark, summed) over Y (distance from the speakers). We were at almost a perfect 80% so we calculated we needed another 3" to get to 83%. So we moved both speakers 1.5" closer to the wall.

I always thought the Wilson setup formula for the triangle was the distance from Tweeter to ear divided by the distance from tweeter to tweeter should be a ratio of 1.0 to 1.25. Has their set up recommendations changed

 

[Lee]

For me it is these little pearls that I love hearing about. I used an acoustician and have been very happy as well

One question regarding this statement

I always thought the Wilson setup formula for the triangle was the distance from Tweeter to ear divided by the distance from tweeter to tweeter should be a ratio of 1.0 to 1.25. Has their set up recommendations changed

I think it's roughly the same but you are using the inverse formula.

 

[Lee]

We have now added some GIK panels that Jim Smith had and has loaned me for a few days. Still listening but the sound seems more alive and focused. GIK is a 8-10 week wait right now but at least I am getting an idea of what the sound change would be. Those are 4" deep panels in the back and then 2" panels on the left and right speakers reflection point.

Glenn Kuras and Norm Varney are posting some useful data on Facebook about ceiling treatments that we are looking at as well.

 

[Al M.]

View attachment 86387

We have now added some GIK panels that Jim Smith had and has loaned me for a few days. Still listening but the sound seems more alive and focused. GIK is a 8-10 week wait right now but at least I am getting an idea of what the sound change would be. Those are 4" deep panels in the back and then 2" panels on the left and right speakers reflection point.

Glenn Kuras and Norm Varney are posting some useful data on Facebook about ceiling treatments that we are looking at as well.

Very nice, Lee. In my room, ceiling treatment has been absolutely essential, as I describe on this page:

My monitor/subwoofer system, page 9

My room though is only 8.5 ft high. Your room appears higher from the image, so the ceiling may play a lesser factor. My ceiling also has nasty acoustic properties, as I outline in my report.

As for the effect of small lateral moves of the speakers in my system, see the currently last page 35 of my thread. These latest moves appear to correlate with your experience.

 

[Lee]

Very nice, Lee. In my room, ceiling treatment has been absolutely essential, as I describe on this page:

My monitor/subwoofer system, page 9

My room though is only 8.5 ft high. Your room appears higher from the image, so the ceiling may play a lesser factor. My ceiling also has nasty acoustic properties, as I outline in my report.

As for the effect of small lateral moves of the speakers in my system, see the currently last page 35 of my thread. These latest moves appear to correlate with your experience.

Excellent and informative thread Al. Thanks.

 

[tpsully99]

I signed up for Jim's Through the Sound Barrier Kickstart campaign several years, and am very interested in his RoomPlay process. His book has some great suggestions, and it looks like you're making some great improvements in your room/rig. Following with much interest!
Tom

 

[sbnx]

For me it is these little pearls that I love hearing about. I used an acoustician and have been very happy as well

One question regarding this statement

I always thought the Wilson setup formula for the triangle was the distance from Tweeter to ear divided by the distance from tweeter to tweeter should be a ratio of 1.0 to 1.25. Has their set up recommendations changed

Every room is different. Sadly, there really is no formla except to find what works.

 

[sbnx]

I don’t mean this as a snarky comment but a 1.5” movement is huge.

congrats on getting your room and placement sorted out. There really is nothing we can buy that has the same level of impact on the SQ.

 

[Al M.]

Every room is different. Sadly, there really is no formla except to find what works.

Indeed, trial and error. Takes time, but it's worth it.

 

[sbnx]

Very nice, Lee. In my room, ceiling treatment has been absolutely essential, as I describe on this page:

My monitor/subwoofer system, page 9

My room though is only 8.5 ft high. Your room appears higher from the image, so the ceiling may play a lesser factor. My ceiling also has nasty acoustic properties, as I outline in my report.

As for the effect of small lateral moves of the speakers in my system, see the currently last page 35 of my thread. These latest moves appear to correlate with your experience.

Agree ceiling treatments work very well and the best part is the dont take up space in the room. Also an idea: instead of mounting them flush.with the ceiling hang them at an angle. This will help a lot with the longitudinal modes.

 

[Steve Williams]

Every room is different. Sadly, there really is no formla except to find what works.

I totally agree. The way I have mine set up
now and a change in my sitting position defies all Wilson algorithms

 

[Lee]

Every room is different. Sadly, there really is no formla except to find what works.

Yes and no. You have to listen to adjust the width but Jim's done thousands of rooms and Wilsons usually sound their best at 82-84% according to him.

Jim came over for some final adjustments and we wound up nicely at 83% with the GIK panels installed. we went about 3/8" wider apart from center line on both speakers before Jim was happy with how his test tracks sounded. The system sounds really frigging amazing now. Setup is everything.

Next up for me is the following:

1. Rossini Clock to be added in January.
2. Maybe Tech DAS V Premium with Kuzma 4P arm in late January.
3. GIK Panels in February.

Looking at also upgrading the tape deck now.

 

[Lee]

Agree ceiling treatments work very well and the best part is the dont take up space in the room. Also an idea: instead of mounting them flush.with the ceiling hang them at an angle. This will help a lot with the longitudinal modes.

Yep. Jim suggested ceiling panels at the same angle as the speaker toe-in.

 

[Lee]

I am also doing something pretty exciting. I will receive two new Synergistic Purple outlets for the room. These are coming later next year due to limited supply and now are only available in the company's Powercells. Ted told me there have been some major tech advances on these.

Local audiophile and Atlanta electrician Jim Petrone is installing them early Tuesday.

 

[tpsully99]

Where on the speaker is the distance measured from? I have Alexx speakers, and there is not a single flat surface on the speaker, except for the front of the bass cabinet. The Wilson manual measures from the bottom of the bass cabinet, and I've heard others measuring from the center of the tweeter. Where was Jim measuring from? Thanks!
Tom

 

[Lee]

Where on the speaker is the distance measured from? I have Alexx speakers, and there is not a single flat surface on the speaker, except for the front of the bass cabinet. The Wilson manual measures from the bottom of the bass cabinet, and I've heard others measuring from the center of the tweeter. Where was Jim measuring from? Thanks!
Tom

Jim placed a vertical + card on top on the tweeter for measuring to the center line. Then a + card just under the tweeters for distance to the ear.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I always thought the Wilson setup formula for the triangle was the distance from Tweeter to ear divided by the distance from tweeter to tweeter should be a ratio of 1.0 to 1.25. Has their set up recommendations changed

As far as I read in the XLF manual it just says " The listening position should ideally be no more than 1.1 to 1.25 times the distance between the tweeters on each speaker."

What is the ratio you currently have in your system?