Roon End-point for Soulution 760 DAC

[SwissTom]

They are all some what computers, haha.

Yes they are! As so is a DAC to a certain point. But some less noisy and a better job than others

 

[SwissTom]

Welcome swiss Tom to wbf.

Thank you

 

[SwissTom]

Listening is always mandatory…

Yes, I couldn’t agree more.
At some point I’ll do some testing : Aurender W20SE (USB digital output) against the Soulution 760 DAC internal LAN adapter.

 

[abeidrov]

I'm sorry but I can't agree.

A transport is, or should be, a low power and low computing power, low noise device. It accepts data from a server, buffers it, re-clocks it, re-buffers it again, sends it to the DAC as noiselessly as possible. A transport is more on the client side of the Client-Server partnership.

A server is, by nature, a powerful machine. It has a lot more computing power. It runs server software, or both server and client software. Therefore it is a noisy beast. Sending a data stream noiselessly to the DAC is then a challenge.

Running Roon, which is really a computing power hungry beast, in a server connected to the DAC is a mistake. Roon Labs advise against it.

Considering the above, companies like Aurender don't produce servers capable of harbouring Roon Core (the Roon server software). They don't want to. Which I believe is a good idea.

If I had to leave Roon and buy a server, I'd probably go for Aurender. I like their pragmatic approach.

In my day-to-day usage, Roon is a delight.

I mostly listen to classical music. For that particular genre, Roon is by far the best music organizer. Its ability to automatically tag the music and automatically link interpretations of the same composition throughout the library is outstanding.

As said a TDX said above "Not a lot of HiEnd choices to pair with". I wonder why?

EDIT :

If Aurender produces a new Roon capable version of the W20SE I'll buy it. They are so reluctant to provide Roon on their products that I see it as a "design quality".

Not sure, what magic product you are looking for? If you want the best sound quality, get yourself something like Taiko SGM Extreme, Antipodes K50 or Aurender N30 and forget about Roon. If you put convenience above the sound quality and insist on using Roon, any cheap Roon endpoint would do. You already have a Roon Endpoint in your dac, why do you need another one?

 

[SwissTom]

Not sure, what magic product you are looking for? If you want the best sound quality, get yourself something like Taiko SGM Extreme, Antipodes K50 or Aurender N30 and forget about Roon. If you put convenience above the sound quality and insist on using Roon, any cheap Roon endpoint would do. You already have a Roon Endpoint in your dac, why do you need another one?

The Soulution 760 internal LAN adapter supports UPnP only. At some point, they might implement RAAT. But it won't happen tomorrow.

Why is everyone saying Roon sounds not good or compromises sound quality

Roon doesn't, or shouldn't, compromise sound quality. At least, if implemented correctly.

Of course, having Roon Core installed on a server connected to a DAC is a bad idea., even on a top-notch server like the Antipodes K50 or a Taiko.

Roon Labs advises against it to anyone concerned about sound quality.

But if one insists on running it on a Taiko/Antipodes/etc server and connect it directly to a DAC, it'll sound bad compared to any other option. Obviously.

What I'm looking for?

Using Roon and having results similar to those obtained with an Antipodes K50 running their lightweight server software.

If that's really not possible, I'll go for an Aurender W20SE.
But first I'll do some home comparisons

 

[abeidrov]

The Soulution 760 internal LAN adapter supports UPnP only. At some point, they might implement RAAT. But it won't happen tomorrow.

Why is everyone saying Roon sounds not good or compromises sound quality

Roon doesn't, or shouldn't, compromise sound quality. At least, if implemented correctly.

Of course, having Roon Core installed on a server connected to a DAC is a bad idea., even on a top-notch server like the Antipodes K50 or a Taiko.

Roon Labs advises against it to anyone concerned about sound quality.

But if one insists on running it on a Taiko/Antipodes/etc server and connect it directly to a DAC, it'll sound bad compared to any other option. Obviously.

What I'm looking for?

Using Roon and having results similar to those obtained with an Antipodes K50 running their lightweight server software.

If that's really not possible, I'll go for an Aurender W20SE.
But first I'll do some home comparisons

Well, you seem to know a lot about inner workings of Roon I have Roon Core running on Antipodes CX and Roon Endpoint installed on Antipodes EX. This is the way Roon recommends it for the best sound quality, isn't it? Could you explain, why Roon sounds much worse compared to Squeezebox solution in my case? Thanks in advance.

 

[SwissTom]

Well, you seem to know a lot about inner workings of Roon I have Roon Core running on Antipodes CX and Roon Endpoint installed on Antipodes EX. This is the way Roon recommends it for the best sound quality, isn't it? Could you explain, why Roon sounds much worse compared to Squeezebox solution in my case? Thanks in advance.

Oh, I know nothing about Roon's internals.

But I did compare RAAT against UPnP.

Roon Core running on a dedicated server and MinimServer running on my NAS.

Both networked.

My DAC/Stramer is connected to the same network, but isolated behind an EtherRegen and some fibre.

Result : no difference in sound quality.

What made a remarkable difference was somewhat isolating the DAC/Stramer with the EtherRegen/Fibre.

I never tested a server like the Aurender/Antipodes/Taiko.
But I certainly will.

Why Roon sounds worst on your system, I can't tell. I suppose it depends on a lot of factors.

My current system is :

Naim :

- ND555, dual 555DR Power supply
- NAC552DR
- NAP500DR
- All Super Lumina cables.

Speakers :

- Magico S3 MkII with SPODs

Treated listening room

 

[TDX]

Do you believe it is a better transport then the Esoteric Network Audio Transport N-03T I mentioned above?

Sotm 200 is no where near n03T.

Yes they are! As so is a DAC to a certain point. But some less noisy and a better job than others

Yes but how you reduce noise? It’s about the USB card you use, the clock, and very importantly the power supply. So Grimm is perfectly ok, same a few others. A lot of research for you to do and make a final decision to buy.

 

[Stereophonic]

Oh, I know nothing about Roon's internals.

But I did compare RAAT against UPnP.

Roon Core running on a dedicated server and MinimServer running on my NAS.

Both networked.

My DAC/Stramer is connected to the same network, but isolated behind an EtherRegen and some fibre.

Result : no difference in sound quality.

What made a remarkable difference was somewhat isolating the DAC/Stramer with the EtherRegen/Fibre.

I never tested a server like the Aurender/Antipodes/Taiko.
But I certainly will.

Why Roon sounds worst on your system, I can't tell. I suppose it depends on a lot of factors.

My current system is :

Naim :

- ND555, dual 555DR Power supply
- NAC552DR
- NAP500DR
- All Super Lumina cables.

Speakers :

- Magico S3 MkII with SPODs

Treated listening room

You still have to install Soulution gear, fully burn they in, understand the impact of your new sound, change speakers position to best one and then will be the moment to search your streaming goal…
Just my 2 cents…

 

[SwissTom]

You still have to install Soulution gear, fully burn they in, understand the impact of your new sound, change speakers position to best one and then will be the moment to search your goal streaming goal…
Just my 2 cents…

Absolutely!
It'll take the needed time, especially considering I'll also change speakers.
And in the meantime I'll try to learn from others experience.

 

[bryans]

If you put convenience above the sound quality and insist on using Roon, any cheap Roon endpoint would do.

Sorry but probably one of the craziest things I have read. I'm sure companies who make Roon endpoints will not agree with your statement.

 

[bryans]

@SwissTom You really need to go listen for yourself and make your own decision. My advice is see what you can demo in your system and then make a decision. If you can't demo it, omit it from your consideration.

Good luck in your search..

 

[bonzo75]

@SwissTom You really need to go listen for yourself and make your own decision. My advice is see what you can demo in your system and then make a decision. If you can't demo it, omit it from your consideration.

Good luck in your search..

Not really, if he has an itch, it needs to be scratched. That is the hobby. Never underestimate the thrill of purchase

 

[bryans]

Not really, if he has an itch, it needs to be scratched. That is the hobby. Never underestimate the thrill of purchase

Are you saying he should just purchase something without listening to it? Maybe I don't understand your reply to my post.

 

[SwissTom]

@SwissTom You really need to go listen for yourself and make your own decision. My advice is see what you can demo in your system and then make a decision.

Wise advice. It'll then be an Aurender W20SE, and I'll probably have the opportunity to try one at home.

First, I'll have to get used to the new gear, both electronics and speakers. In the meantime, I'll use the Soulution 760 network adapter.

 

[battles]

Hi SwissTom,

Looking forward to hearing your comparison of running Roon via network streamer/etherregen vs an Aurender W20SE (why not the N30?) via USB. Reason I’m interested is that I currently run Roon on a powerful multi core QNAP server on the opposite side of the house, that via a commercial grade network switch, connects via fiber to an etherregen utilizing an outboard clock and upgraded linear power supply. From there, the etherregen connects via a Gobel Ethernet cable to the network renderer v2 module of my MSB Select DAC (Roon compatible endpoint) powered by two separate mono power bases. In absence of comparing my existing set up vs. inserting an Aurender or Taiko into my system (which then requires another $20K investment an isolation platform, reference USB cable, power cable etc), it sounds very organic and unveiled against a inky black background. Would the added investment of a high end USB server produce a materially better result, I don’t know? I understand other users, including Mike, have drawn this conclusion but not sure whether they were using an etherregen to further isolate and reclock their Roon server before biting the bullet on a Taiko, et al? However, I’m curious to hear what your ears conclude since your existing setup is very similar to mine. Then I might be tempted to explore!

Thanks,
Battles

 

[MRJAZZ]

Perhaps to inexpensive, compared to the other components in your system, but you might want to also consider the new HI FI ROSE 150 , STREAMER. IT also has a nice Dac, but it’s main benefit is it’s an excellent Transport with a superb interface. It utilizes a 14 inch OLED like touch screen with 4 K resolution. It has digital outputs that include AES, IS2, ( DVI , and RJ45), and COAX.
It’s extremely versatile and looks very cool . At 5K MSRP it represents extreme value.
Cheers...

 

[TDX]

Perhaps to inexpensive, compared to the other components in your system, but you might want to also consider the new HI FI ROSE 150 , STREAMER. IT also has a nice Dac, but it’s main benefit is it’s an excellent Transport with a superb interface. It utilizes a 14 inch OLED like touch screen with 4 K resolution. It has digital outputs that include AES, IS2, ( DVI , and RJ45), and COAX.
It’s extremely versatile and looks very cool . At 5K MSRP it represents extreme value.
Cheers...

Have you heard hifi rose and compared with any HiEnd streamer? I know it looks beautiful and functionality versatile but not sure about the sound.

 

[MRJAZZ]

Have you heard hifi rose and compared with any HiEnd streamer? I know it looks beautiful and functionality versatile but not sure about the sound.

Yes....I also had a Esoteric NO1 XD for approximately a year. The Esoteric has a better internal DAC, however I prefer the the HI FI ROSE, to the extant that it can also be used as just a Transport (there’s no digital out with the Esoteric, so if one wanted to use a better DAC (yes the internal DAC of the NO1 XD is very good, and while the FPGA DAC in the DAC portion of the ESOTERIC will probably benefit from future updates via it’s ETHERNET port) it’s “TRANSPORT” capabilities are limited , (in my opinion).

Also there’s no Remote Control capability, which is somewhat strange on a $20,000 MSRP DAC/ STREAMER . Don’t get me wrong, the NXO1 XD, is a superb unit. Beautifully built, and the overall sound with the on board DAC is very, very good. Compared to using it as just a Streamer/ DAC, versus the HI FI ROSE, as a STREAMER/DAC, the Esoteric is the better unit if sound is your first priority. However with the feature set that the ROSE 150 offers, and the capability of adding a SOTA outboard DAC, at some point, swings the scales towards the ROSE 150, for me, and finally the on board display is SOTA....makes for a very pleasurable user experience.
Cheers.....

 

[knghifi]

I asked Cyrill and he prefers Ethernet to USB digital input. I'm using a Melco HA-N1Z/2EX-H50 with my Soulution 560 via Ethernet and VERY please with the results. Only $5500, simple plug and play, control with IOS MConnect HD App ... should add to your demo list.