Interesting, Mark...so how do you rank the interfaces and digital cables you have? Is i2s first, or spdif...or are you saying (as with a lot of things) the implementation by the DAC designer is primary...and the cables themselves are of 'equal' quality...now improved with Bocchino hardware?
Sablon spdif / aes
- Thread starter Sablon Audio
- Start date
The Bocch plugs have turned everything upside down Lloyd. Suggest you take the demo box and see what you think!
That's amazing. You say you can hear differences in connectors depending on the base metal and the plating, be it copper, tin, brass, gold silver, rhodium, chrome, platinum, etc. Yet you can't distinguish between 50ohm and 75ohm BNCs and have been misrepresenting 50ohm BNC cables as 75ohm for years. Don't you qualify your suppliers and perform incomming inspection? Don't you do any quality control on the products you make and sell? Apparantly not. Even if you can't hear the difference between 50 and 75 ohm BNCs, the difference is obvious by visual examination, alone. BTW, the difference is more the the thickness of the insulation.
@Tam Lin - all inferences are by their nature personal interpretations, though yours seems unnecessarily extreme. A more plausible explanation might be that several years ago as a neophyte I bought a batch of plugs from an established cable manufacturer after a satisfactory audition. The resulting cable was well received by both media (Terry London and Jay ‘Audio Bacon’ Luong) and customers.
When the discovery about the insulation came to light two years ago, I went to the trouble of modifying the plug. My remaining stock however ran out several months ago and, since that particular Atlas plug is now out of production, I have replaced it with the Oyaide one.
Given your apparent interest in matters technical, I suggest you don’t read the first post of this thread which details the design of the cable itself. Unshielded, non-coaxial, hand-built. Assumptions were made when calculating the theoretical characteristic impedance over the dielectric constant of silk, for which there was little data available, and the variable conductor spacing as the silk gets compressed by the helical conductor being wrapped around it. That said, the spdif standard allows for +/-15% deviation and sensitivity analyses around individual aspects of design suggests that not everything is terribly influential on the outcome.
We should also consider that lots of people run spdif with rca terminations and their equipment often also has non-75ohm jacks and internal wiring. Despite all these theoretical deficiencies, my ears tell me that the platinum Bocchino rca sounds better than the Oyaide silver bnc despite so obviously not being 75 ohm compliant. Quite gloriously so in fact.
As you may see, whilst I am happy to initially design around established technical standards, I am equally quite comfortable to diverge from that point onwards in the pursuit of better subjective performance. That is after all how people evaluate hi-fi products, by how they sound. Peter Qvortrup’s point about not everything that measures, matters, continues to be relevant.
When the discovery about the insulation came to light two years ago, I went to the trouble of modifying the plug. My remaining stock however ran out several months ago and, since that particular Atlas plug is now out of production, I have replaced it with the Oyaide one.
Given your apparent interest in matters technical, I suggest you don’t read the first post of this thread which details the design of the cable itself. Unshielded, non-coaxial, hand-built. Assumptions were made when calculating the theoretical characteristic impedance over the dielectric constant of silk, for which there was little data available, and the variable conductor spacing as the silk gets compressed by the helical conductor being wrapped around it. That said, the spdif standard allows for +/-15% deviation and sensitivity analyses around individual aspects of design suggests that not everything is terribly influential on the outcome.
We should also consider that lots of people run spdif with rca terminations and their equipment often also has non-75ohm jacks and internal wiring. Despite all these theoretical deficiencies, my ears tell me that the platinum Bocchino rca sounds better than the Oyaide silver bnc despite so obviously not being 75 ohm compliant. Quite gloriously so in fact.
As you may see, whilst I am happy to initially design around established technical standards, I am equally quite comfortable to diverge from that point onwards in the pursuit of better subjective performance. That is after all how people evaluate hi-fi products, by how they sound. Peter Qvortrup’s point about not everything that measures, matters, continues to be relevant.
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Some nice fb just received on the Oyaide bnc spdif from a long-standing customer in WA
Just arrived. Put the BNC between CH Precision clock and DAC.
On first note, it outclassed my Nordost Odin and Stealth Octava which will go an sale soon.
Congrats Mark! So happy to be a customer.
Just arrived. Put the BNC between CH Precision clock and DAC.
On first note, it outclassed my Nordost Odin and Stealth Octava which will go an sale soon.
Congrats Mark! So happy to be a customer.
Am adding these two to my USA demo program, aes and spdif fitted with the latest palladium plated Bocchino terminations. I realise many automatically reach for aes for theoretical reasons, however of these two I prefer the rca as my best sounding option. As did the last listener who put it against a nordic model costing >10 times as much…
I wasn’t planning to circulate bnc as the bocchino rca sounds better. Have compared several cables made from the same wire but with a variety of termination formats (bnc / rca / aes / rj45 i2s) and the bocch rca was the best sounding. It was ultimately the metallurgy of the plug which transcended technical aspects such as bespoke i2s implementation and 75ohm characteristic impedance.
Similar story on the aqua LinQ / xhd combo Lloyd however my efforts / ears told me otherwise. I tried no fewer than 5 different builds on the i2s however ultimately my bocch rca spdif was better. With a more regular klei pure silver rca, no slouch in itself, the overall performance of the spdif didn’t enjoy the same advantage.
Mark, an interesting find! I applaud that you let your ears guide you. Might I find something similar with my TotalDac 12 mk2? I use your AES between my first and second TotalDac reclockers. Perhaps I should add this RCA for my Demo?
I’m in the market for a second high quality s/pdif ‘ 75 ohm‘ (comments above noted) digital cable. Your preferred combination remains the Bocchino RCA terminated model (?).
I’m currently comparing my own Tron II with a loaned Coherent Designs model and have some more to come (Entreq, Shunyata, Tellurium and possibly Atlas)
I would be keen to try your cable if we could arrange that.
I’m also in the market for a power cable but I don’t know if you make anything in my budget (having only seen the US pricing)
I’m currently comparing my own Tron II with a loaned Coherent Designs model and have some more to come (Entreq, Shunyata, Tellurium and possibly Atlas)
I would be keen to try your cable if we could arrange that.
I’m also in the market for a power cable but I don’t know if you make anything in my budget (having only seen the US pricing)
Yes it should be available next month Andy, have a couple of other auditions lined up before. Best email me with your details.
I too want to share my experience with the Sablon AES-EBU cable. It finds itself resident between my Grimm MU1 and Mola-Mola Tambaqui combo. But first, some foundational context is in order, or my opinion would arguably be rather meaningless for you.
I’ve been chasing the audio dream for about 4 decades now. I’m seriously closing in at long last, with most of the actual progress coming in the last few years. Suffice it to say mistakes have been made. The biggest one was mistaking brightness for detail. Don’t do it! Since you’re reading this topic in this forum, I’m pretty sure you’re an audiophile and we share many things in common. That said, I’ve come to what I believe are some pretty important guidelines for the hobby.
One of the most important is that when reading reviews, forums and researching what people are saying about any audiophile product, many commenters are what I call, “uncalibrated.” You don’t know what they have heard, the conditions under which they heard it, and what the surrounding combination of equipment were. You don’t know what is, and isn’t, sonically important to them. How do they know what great sounds like, if they have never heard it (and heard it frequently). That’s uncalibrated. Add that all up, and most opinions are actually quite meaningless. Unless one can change one component being evaluated for its sonic merit at a time, you have no idea of what the component under test is contributing (or failing to contribute). So how can anything anyone writes have much credibility in your context? It occasionally can, but it’s a hard fought for and rare situation. The only hope is to read a person’s writings over time, hopefully with a few components here and there that you’ve also heard and know. Did they agree with what you thought? I know, even then, it’s is pretty weak proof statement. I say this because you should be applying this logic and critical thinking to what I’m going to say! There's nothing better hearing a component change in your system, with your ears.
I’ve pretty much stopped dissecting and evaluating bass, midrange, treble line of thinking. Music isn’t about bands of requenc ranges, really. To me it’s become a thing about emotion, nuance, timbre and truth of the musical performance. The talent of the musicians. The fabric of the music, its texture. When it’s really right, it gives me goosebumps. Frequently occurring goosebumps mean it’s really, really good. Equally indicative… can you listen for hours on end, and yet still be ticked-off and disappointed when you have to stop? If so, that’s really, really good. When a system is really at the top of the heap, the music gains an amazing direct connection with you that is simply stunning. It makes you think wow in the first measure.
I have a theory… it goes like this. When a song starts, your brain spends about 2-10 seconds analyzing it to determine what’s going on. What right and what wrong with all the timing nuances, reverberation, frequencies, etc. Brains know what’s real, what’s natural, what is simply right. A brain know when it hears things that don’t make sense or are unnatural. It’s like how do you know when you’re walking along the bars in Nashville, which bars have live music spilling out of them and which are being reproduced? Your brain just knows. Anything that assessed to be wrong, forces your brain to fix it in real time as you listen. The more wrong, the more fixing is needed. When everything is right, there’s not much to fix. When there no fixing required, you get that direct connection to the music, to the musician that makes you feel there. Your brain accepts the music, with little or no pre-processing required. You can listen for hours without any fatigue. Theres nothing bothersome and distracting you from the music. Really good systems, playing well recorded music, do this.
The other, not-so-frequently discussed reality of our hobby, is that no matter how wonderfully musical and engaging your system is, it can be brought to its knees by a poor recording. It should be a crime that so much incredible music has been handicapped by poor recordings. I know, some would say, that the music supersedes the recording, perhaps for some, but for me not so much. I wish it were different. No matter, it is what it is and there are a lot of wonderful recordings. Roon has been a godsend.
So now, with all that said, I can report with 100% certainty that the Sablon AES-EBU cable is an absolute winner, at least for the MU-1 / Tambaqui combination. It’s simply pure magic. I already had a very good AES-EBU cable, that cost a few hundred dollars less. I kind of thought I was out of my mind for taking the gamble with the Sablon. But several of the forum posters that I had qualified as being fully “calibrated” were often using Sablon cables. So, you don’t know until you know... and I went for it anyway. It turns out to be a wonderful decision. Zero regrets. Worth every single penny. The Sablon cable delivered considerable gains in nuance, musicality and that direct connection to the music that we all crave. It just makes good recordings sound "right." I’ve now had the cable for over a month. In that time, I’ve tried going back-and-forth repeatedly on a given song, and also tried listening to my old cable for several days, then the the Sablon for several days. Every time, the Sablon wins hands down. Not just different; but way better. You can tell immediately. It's not subtle.
So here's my bottom line (finally), IMHO. If you are lucky (smart?) enough to own the Grimm MU-1 and the Tambaqui, I would go out on a limb and suggest that you may have likely not heard just how good they are. That’s how good Mark’s cable really and truly is. If you have dismissed the importance of digital cables, you would do well to reconsider and try it. I was leaving performance on the table. Very, very highly recommended. You don’t know, until you know. Perhaps it’s time for a new high-water mark in your audio “calibration” journey, just as it was for me. Plus, Mark is really responsive, knowledable and a pelasure to do buisness with.
I’ve been chasing the audio dream for about 4 decades now. I’m seriously closing in at long last, with most of the actual progress coming in the last few years. Suffice it to say mistakes have been made. The biggest one was mistaking brightness for detail. Don’t do it! Since you’re reading this topic in this forum, I’m pretty sure you’re an audiophile and we share many things in common. That said, I’ve come to what I believe are some pretty important guidelines for the hobby.
One of the most important is that when reading reviews, forums and researching what people are saying about any audiophile product, many commenters are what I call, “uncalibrated.” You don’t know what they have heard, the conditions under which they heard it, and what the surrounding combination of equipment were. You don’t know what is, and isn’t, sonically important to them. How do they know what great sounds like, if they have never heard it (and heard it frequently). That’s uncalibrated. Add that all up, and most opinions are actually quite meaningless. Unless one can change one component being evaluated for its sonic merit at a time, you have no idea of what the component under test is contributing (or failing to contribute). So how can anything anyone writes have much credibility in your context? It occasionally can, but it’s a hard fought for and rare situation. The only hope is to read a person’s writings over time, hopefully with a few components here and there that you’ve also heard and know. Did they agree with what you thought? I know, even then, it’s is pretty weak proof statement. I say this because you should be applying this logic and critical thinking to what I’m going to say! There's nothing better hearing a component change in your system, with your ears.
I’ve pretty much stopped dissecting and evaluating bass, midrange, treble line of thinking. Music isn’t about bands of requenc ranges, really. To me it’s become a thing about emotion, nuance, timbre and truth of the musical performance. The talent of the musicians. The fabric of the music, its texture. When it’s really right, it gives me goosebumps. Frequently occurring goosebumps mean it’s really, really good. Equally indicative… can you listen for hours on end, and yet still be ticked-off and disappointed when you have to stop? If so, that’s really, really good. When a system is really at the top of the heap, the music gains an amazing direct connection with you that is simply stunning. It makes you think wow in the first measure.
I have a theory… it goes like this. When a song starts, your brain spends about 2-10 seconds analyzing it to determine what’s going on. What right and what wrong with all the timing nuances, reverberation, frequencies, etc. Brains know what’s real, what’s natural, what is simply right. A brain know when it hears things that don’t make sense or are unnatural. It’s like how do you know when you’re walking along the bars in Nashville, which bars have live music spilling out of them and which are being reproduced? Your brain just knows. Anything that assessed to be wrong, forces your brain to fix it in real time as you listen. The more wrong, the more fixing is needed. When everything is right, there’s not much to fix. When there no fixing required, you get that direct connection to the music, to the musician that makes you feel there. Your brain accepts the music, with little or no pre-processing required. You can listen for hours without any fatigue. Theres nothing bothersome and distracting you from the music. Really good systems, playing well recorded music, do this.
The other, not-so-frequently discussed reality of our hobby, is that no matter how wonderfully musical and engaging your system is, it can be brought to its knees by a poor recording. It should be a crime that so much incredible music has been handicapped by poor recordings. I know, some would say, that the music supersedes the recording, perhaps for some, but for me not so much. I wish it were different. No matter, it is what it is and there are a lot of wonderful recordings. Roon has been a godsend.
So now, with all that said, I can report with 100% certainty that the Sablon AES-EBU cable is an absolute winner, at least for the MU-1 / Tambaqui combination. It’s simply pure magic. I already had a very good AES-EBU cable, that cost a few hundred dollars less. I kind of thought I was out of my mind for taking the gamble with the Sablon. But several of the forum posters that I had qualified as being fully “calibrated” were often using Sablon cables. So, you don’t know until you know... and I went for it anyway. It turns out to be a wonderful decision. Zero regrets. Worth every single penny. The Sablon cable delivered considerable gains in nuance, musicality and that direct connection to the music that we all crave. It just makes good recordings sound "right." I’ve now had the cable for over a month. In that time, I’ve tried going back-and-forth repeatedly on a given song, and also tried listening to my old cable for several days, then the the Sablon for several days. Every time, the Sablon wins hands down. Not just different; but way better. You can tell immediately. It's not subtle.
So here's my bottom line (finally), IMHO. If you are lucky (smart?) enough to own the Grimm MU-1 and the Tambaqui, I would go out on a limb and suggest that you may have likely not heard just how good they are. That’s how good Mark’s cable really and truly is. If you have dismissed the importance of digital cables, you would do well to reconsider and try it. I was leaving performance on the table. Very, very highly recommended. You don’t know, until you know. Perhaps it’s time for a new high-water mark in your audio “calibration” journey, just as it was for me. Plus, Mark is really responsive, knowledable and a pelasure to do buisness with.
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Mark has been away this past week. I am sure he will be in touch soon, when he returns.
Morning Bala, you may care to check your junk folder / spam settings as I have written to you twice, using a different email account when it became obvious that you hadn’t read my first reply.
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