SAT Direct Drive Turntable!
- Thread starter lordcloud
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I think the three bolts are there to hold the chassis of motor in place, maybe able to fine tune the vertical axis of the shaft. They do nothing to strengthen the rigidity of the shaft.
The thing is, platter will swing during rotation. It requires a strong support below to stabilize the swing. All shaft in direct drive TT is relatively small compared to the platter. The swing is not well damped leading to problems.
At least, that is what I understand of this matter.
In one sense not much is changing - the issues - the physics if you will - that pose challenges to getting a platter to quietly and reliably rotate at 33? remain the same.
The machining tools and ability to work with more exotic materials continues to change and advance, sometimes to the point where new implementations become possible.
I don't know whether the desire and the financing to do large-scale assaults on the state of the art have changed or not. How many more generations will have the where-with-all to fund and/or pay for the likes of the AF0/AF1, AS2000, etc. in order play a vinyl record?
I do believe the advent of digital technology in the service of analog accuracy is newer. The use of computers and software add the facility of tremendous speed in feedback and response time. I see this mostly (only?) happening in the DD realm and not with belt drives, but maybe there is something amongst the belters that I missed.
Go back to part 1 of Peter Moncreiff's review of the Rockport Serius III as he trudges step by ponderous step through his drive type analysis. What has changed? Not that much for belt, idler, rim. Maybe the use of advanced materials for belts? From my perspective the changes to the extent they are happening for drive systems is occuring in DD-land.
Elsewhere there is the use of newer materials for damping, resonance/vibration control.
I'm not sure just what are the claims for the Technics motor. Most of what I find is either repeating Technics own literature -or- Michael Fremer.
Wasn't quite sure how to take M.Fremer's comments about a pre-production version of the Technics SL-1000R, to wit:
Cell phone app provides proof, eh - but he didn't need measurements. Not sure what he was comparing the SL-1000R with to claim "a new level of excellence". Whatever it was, I was pleased that he could hear a difference. I too believe increased stable accuracy is quite audible in ways beyond the old-world wow & flutter standard. However, for actual claims about measured performance I haven't seen much else.
The motor itself is described by Technics thus:
Okay. But what we have not heard from Technics is a number for peak error from 33? - and how is that measured. As with many TT manufacturers, information about the drive system is not easily available.
You will find out once we get compare reports from Mr.T that everyone is expecting
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No, if the rest of the turntable is up to scratch the motor brings certain qualities that mostly affect pitch clarity which is very important for getting closer to a natural sound. The nature of the sound of a turntable and how much information is retrieved from the grooves, tone, timbre, etc. and naturalness come from other decisions one makes, because of that these two turntables will be very different sounding in their essence.
david
No, probably they do not have exactly the same sonic signature, the motor implementations differ in several important aspects, such as electrical drive system, but they will share some characteristics - we can think they will not have the characteristic sound created by a servo system keeping maximum speed accuracy. But the main turntables are very different.
As far as I know conceptually the SAT turntable is in the same class as many modified turntables and plinth builders - but probably optimized for the SAT tonearms. The SAT tonearm has a typical sound - I like it a lot, but IMHO it does not pretend to be a mastertape type of sound. IMHO we will learn a lot from comparisons between the stock Technics turntable and the SAT turntable.
My initial hesitation is that a ton of effort looks to have been expended on the tt, from platter to arm mount to plinth to suspension, so much so it's unrecognisable from the stock SP10R.
Yet the motor psu looks untouched, no fancy chassis for vibration isolation etc
An oversight? Certainly at the price SAT will charge, I'd want the whole thing unrecognisable from stock.
Yet the motor psu looks untouched, no fancy chassis for vibration isolation etc
An oversight? Certainly at the price SAT will charge, I'd want the whole thing unrecognisable from stock.
Some modified Garrard's or Lenco's just keep little more than the motor and the general concept ...
I can imagine that if SME accepted to sell him the SME30 as an OEM part Gomez would love to modify it. A couple of years ago the SME/30 - SAT tonearm combo become very popular - to the the point it was hard to source an used SME30 in Europe.
Fransisco, did you ever hear this combination? What made it such a popular combination a few years ago? I wonder if it is still popular a few years later, or if people moved on. I don't see many used SME30s or SAT arms around. In fact, given how many SME 30s and 30/12s have been made over the years, I am surprised more are not available on Audiogon or similar sites.
How many SAT had sold till a couple of years ago, and how many SAT owners do you think had SME? How can it be concluded that this was a popular combination? Obviously, anyone buying SAT would have thought it was the premium top arm he was buying, and he would have put it on any table that he owned, whether techdas, SME, or anything else.
No, I never listened to the combination, but it was reported to me by a SAT distributor and the SME30 pairing was recommended by Marc Gomez himself as a great match. Having sold my SME30, I regretted the decision and started looking for a nice used one in Europe three years ago - at that time people confirmed me of this trend.
As far as I know the sales of new SME30 declined but the SMEV is still a strong seller.
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I haven't heard Marc said any tt was not a good match to his arm Micro.
He also said to me Brinkmann Balance is a great match. I don't quite get what you meant when said SAT has a "typical sound." What is that typical sound. And why does it not pretend to be a master tape type sound. Do you meaan it actually sounds like a master tape and not have to pretend. Equipment does not pretend people do imo. Tang
I inferred from what Fransisco wrote that people were buying used SME30s to pair with their SAT arms. He noticed a shortage of used SME30s in Europe for this reason. Perhaps people thought the SME30 was a good value on the used market and that the combination with the SAT arm was a particularly good one at a reasonable cost. I don't really know, just trying to figure out what Fransisco was saying.
I haven't heard Marc said any tt was not a good match to his arm Micro.
Tang
We have different information - there was plenty of information on this subject some years ago. See for example - https://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/03/swedish-analog-technologies-sme-302.html .
I have listened to the SAT and the top Graham in a friend system that owns tapes - a Studer 820 and Telefunken M15. Same cartridge , same turntable, as Ked likes and wants to do. They sound completely different, I would say it was a different LP being played! So I report what is my opinion - the SAT enhances the sound, the Graham sounded more like the tape or top digital. Surely IMHO, YMMV.
I like to hear it both the same and optimized (in which case it can be different, to understand if different arms suit different carts and vice versa)
. Looks like you are using "like ked" and "like tape" as the references
You are the great Comperator, oh chosen oneI like to hear it both the same and optimized (in which case it can be different, to understand if different arms suit different carts and vice versa)
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