SET amp owners thread
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
Interesting!
I had never heard of anything like that before.
My components are the latest edition, hopefully I won't have similar issues.
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The case the Audio is built in is a piece of junk. You can not access anything from the bottom. You cant access through the top. You have to unsolder the amp to get into it to do any work.
The iron is good. That is not the issue. My belief is there is a circuit board PS sitting over the transformers and either the CB is a piss poor design or its picking up emi from the transformers. I have installed a piece of magnetic metal around the toroid power transformer and that blocked some noise. But it goes further than than.
If someone were to mess with this amp again, it would need to be removed from its case, landed in a new one, completely rewired. Basically I would be handing some iron and sockets to an engineer and saying, make me an amp. Which Ken of Soundgate said he would do. But, what do I end up with.
The iron is good. That is not the issue. My belief is there is a circuit board PS sitting over the transformers and either the CB is a piss poor design or its picking up emi from the transformers. I have installed a piece of magnetic metal around the toroid power transformer and that blocked some noise. But it goes further than than.
If someone were to mess with this amp again, it would need to be removed from its case, landed in a new one, completely rewired. Basically I would be handing some iron and sockets to an engineer and saying, make me an amp. Which Ken of Soundgate said he would do. But, what do I end up with.
Soundgate has a parallel 45
What tubes do I need to buy to make this amp sing. As in, do I need some old stock that are really expensive. Or are there newer tubes that are more in the $300 each range that sonically work well.
What tubes do I need to buy to make this amp sing. As in, do I need some old stock that are really expensive. Or are there newer tubes that are more in the $300 each range that sonically work well.
I don't think the 6922 is a good choice for any audio application. Frame-grid triodes of this type can be quite linear, but microphonics are always a problem. Having done this a while, I'm really not a fan of miniature tubes in a power amplifier, unless that power amplifier is using feedback. How the voltage amplifier and driver circuit behave have 90-95% of the 'sound' of the amplifier most of the time.
Its hard to imagine one sounding better than the other. As I understand it, AC filament power is used to prevent hot spots occurring on the filament of the power tube. So this is to get longer life out of the power tube (or any DHT for that matter). But just because AC power is used for the filaments there still should be no hum.
They are more expensive. I don't know anything about the GM70 tube. I hear talk about the 211. Never really sat with either.
Cheever's opening statement is no longer true, although it for the most part was in the 1980s. He bases some of his comments on stuff from Stereophile- I remember Robert Harley exclaiming in a later issue that 'no-one knows why an amplifier can measure so poorly and yet sound so good' (paraphrasing). In this statement he was wrong- he didn't know the right designers or didn't ask them. Sometimes you have to make your hand move to get things done...I think this is a rather important paper in the discussion...been referencing it for years
I like that he shows the IMD does not correlate to THD as so may purport. When our amps got measured by Glass Audio, they found the IMD was quite low, much power than the THD.
Much of what is stated in this article is stuff I've been pushing for a long time. What I didn't see though was any talk about distortion vs frequency. In a zero feedback amplifier, this will be a flat line across the audio band. If not flat, other tones will be heard and will contribute to harshness. So it was implied...
It's hard for you to imagine, but this is actually the harsh truth of life.
You seem to be quite knowledgeable about many things audio and I do mean that as a compliment.
Personally I find the Shindo quite musical! I am not sure I know what perfect is or heard perfect even at live events. Do the Shindo components have a particular colouration that bothers you? I am assuming you have heard their components in appropriate environments.
yes the Shindo Giscours and Monbrison were compared with the top of the line Shindo Amps, and direct without pre amp. The person who owned the Giscours also later preferred the dartzeel preamp into his Shindo power amp. I compared that Shindo power amp to an ear push pull power amp on tannoy reds, and in another system posted on this thread the Shindo 300b power amp you will see comparisons and also the Monbrison was compared the basic Mayer 10y copper, with a Shindo power amp. I have also heard the entire Shindo system and compared the Shindo Garrard 301.
i am not saying it isn’t enjoyable. And the Monbrison for its price is very good value for a 1 box phono plus preamp with only Ear as competition at that price. But I prefer more neutral SETs and cleaner tubes in general
Thanks for the well considered reply. I will look for the previous information on this thread.
Looking through your impressive system I could not figure out what you are using for an amplifier. Perhaps you have many choices?
Do you have some specific suggestions for more neutral SETs?
that’s not my system, that’s my list of preferred components. My last thing to decide on are a value priced excellent sounding SET amp which is why I started this thread to audition as many as possible.
In the range of Shindo 300b power or Kondo Neiro 2a3 wattage commercially a more neutral amp could be NAF 2a3, something designed by Thomas Mayer, or you find someone local to design you one and you can then get the designer to tweak it till you like it. You can also compare the airtight integrated 300b if you find it used to check how you feel about that against Shindo, in terms of colour vs neutrality.
To be clear, i jumped in sayingthat Shindo was coloured because the discussion at that time was going back and forth on SETs colouration, and you joined the discussion saying you have Shindo and added "Is it accurate? Probably not" to which I replied.
There are 14w GM70 amps from audio detail in the U.K. which are excellent, and customisable…i.e. You could get the transformer or anything you want changed to add parts you want, or get it in stock form. They were better than Kondo Neiro 2a3 and i might do a compare of them with Shindo 300b in the future as the people who open them are approx three hours from each other. He also does others like PX4 and 211. The GM70 tubes are much cheaper than 211 vintage or 300bs.
for preamp I prefer the Thomas Mayer 10y.
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For phono there are many but the Shindo as I said is tough to beat for a one box solution
my objective among other things is to get transparency to recordings, i.e. acoustic music on good recordings should show through with the ambience of the record, and I should feel the change of the concert hall venue with the change in record. I check different record labels to verify this. If someone has objectives to enhance the sound of certain types of music especially with amplified stuff their preference could be different from mine. I don't like constantness across records as it gets boring no matter how good it feels on the first track.
I was not aware of what Dasguteohr said about early Shindo's having a changing sound daily so not sure if the ones I heard had that issue or not.
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I once had a monbrison, a friend also, really good preamp you don't need more to listen to music. but they 2 monbrison looked different inside other components. not meant to sound bad but he used what he had in stock to build the amps. the f2a poweramps are a masterpiece, one of the best tubes ever made from siemens.
I'm a big fan from ecl/ecf pentode driver for power tubes.very linear, gain variable triode or pentode mode. energetic lifelike sound love it.
Yes , I understand this to be the case , I came to my own Cortese F2a having spend some time with the Siemens F2a11 valve modifying vintage Audiomaster 11A mono blocks to run the Siemens F2a11 instead of EL34’s in those amps, via socket adaptors and a couple of component changes , this was all the rage amongst a couple of guys on the Review 33 forum at one time.
A high regard for the valve led me to pick up Cortese F2a which I ran for a while and which majored on a relaxed musicality , all part of the Shindo voicing ethos.
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This is a pair of Audiomaster 11A’s (circa 1955 ) adapted to run the Siemens F2a11 owned back then by Marantz7c ( forum handle)
Apologies for the slight Off Topic .
Apologies for the slight Off Topic .
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This tubes runs 30 years without problems, good choice and nice amps.
Here my tip thöress 11.5 trioden watt f2a amazing sound, love that toolbox design
P.S the legendary sound from klangfilm 401/telefunken v 69 amps a bit magic comes from this tube substitute first el12 then f2a
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