SET amp owners thread

[Atmasphere]

I see examples were done in commercial amps and preamps. I tested them in my amps and found that the combination sounds better with bypass as it gets the best in clarity and bass slam. Of course, if I can get away with one cap, that would be ideal and cheaper.

The issue is the choice of capacitor. If its got problems, bypassing it might actually sound better. IME its better to just give it your best shot with the best cap you can. This usually means Teflon as it has the best characteristics at audio frequencies. Polystyrene can be pretty good too- if you can get some made with a properly thin film. To my understanding the Germans made the best film but got out of it a good 20 years ago or so leaving just the Chinese film which is about 6x thicker. That might have changed in the last 20 years- I've not followed it.

Oil-filled parts can also sound very nice but run the risk of electrical leakage which can wreck havoc no matter where they are in the amplification train. The only part I've seen that doesn't have this problem is the V-Cap ODAM but there may be others. The Teflon has better performance though.

I agree with @sparkie 's assement about resistor noise. You have a better shot if you simply have a single resistor with a much higher Wattage value than needed (that was how they got low noise in the old days) or by using a wirewound, since its inductance is likely not a problem at audio frequencies.

 

[sparkie]

I agree with @sparkie 's assement about resistor noise. You have a better shot if you simply have a single resistor with a much higher Wattage value than needed (that was how they got low noise in the old days) or by using a wirewound, since its inductance is likely not a problem at audio frequencies.

What I find with non-inductive wirewounds when deployed in the plate and cathode circuits is that there anti- inductive properties have a tendency to increase slew rate and settling time in tubes. The tonality improvements by putting them in the cathode circuit is a product of them eliminating phase shifts from the grid circuit.
In the plate circuit, they have a tendency to lower the tube RF hash noise, thus improving transient gain properties.

 

[we421a]

The issue is the choice of capacitor. If its got problems, bypassing it might actually sound better. IME its better to just give it your best shot with the best cap you can. This usually means Teflon as it has the best characteristics at audio frequencies. Polystyrene can be pretty good too- if you can get some made with a properly thin film. To my understanding the Germans made the best film but got out of it a good 20 years ago or so leaving just the Chinese film which is about 6x thicker. That might have changed in the last 20 years- I've not followed it.

Oil-filled parts can also sound very nice but run the risk of electrical leakage which can wreck havoc no matter where they are in the amplification train. The only part I've seen that doesn't have this problem is the V-Cap ODAM but there may be others. The Teflon has better performance though.

I agree with @sparkie 's assement about resistor noise. You have a better shot if you simply have a single resistor with a much higher Wattage value than needed (that was how they got low noise in the old days) or by using a wirewound, since its inductance is likely not a problem at audio frequencies.

I would agree. Currently testing the ODAM vs Deulund tinned copper cast PIO 0.47 without bypass in between the driver and output 300b. The size matters . Deulund has fuller sound and deeper bass. The ODAM has the clarity . I added 0.01 Audyn copper max with .47 vitamin Q and it sounds better than ODAM as it gets the best of both end. Just for my own experiment and playing around

 

[Argonaut]

Tuning a circuit to one’s taste via rolling capacitor types , and resister type , can be fun … and at times quite an ear opener , at other times something of a wabbit hole , in many respects if one is confident enough with a solder iron , for my part I prefer such tuning via components before tuning via valves .

 

[Salectric]

Although I often disagree with @atmosphere I am in full agreement with his comment regarding capacitors. The best coupling capacitor is a single cap, no bypass, and the best sounding of the many I’ve tried is V-Cap CuTF. Instead of messing around with a Duelund Cast and different bypass caps, just put in a .22uf CuTF and you’re done.

 

[acousticsguru]

Although I often disagree with @atmosphere I am in full agreement with his comment regarding capacitors. The best coupling capacitor is a single cap, no bypass, and the best sounding of the many I’ve tried is V-Cap CuTF. Instead of messing around with a Duelund Cast and different bypass caps, just put in a .22uf CuTF and you’re done.

Agree wholeheartedly, it's what I have in two of my amps. Takes an awful long time to burn in, though, during which it sounds a bit flat and technical, or some might say analytical, but over time (distributor says 400 hours, Steve Deckert says 600 hours minimum during which he feels it sounds "vile", an exaggeration if you ask me, but the one reason, price notwithstanding, he cautions against using it, even though he does recommend it to the patient as the most transparent in the long term) comes closest to sounding transparent like no capacitor (pun intended) I know.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[Barry]

"Takes an awful long time to burn in, though, during which it sounds a bit flat and technical, or some might say analytical, but over time (distributor says 400 hours, Steve Deckert says 600 hours minimum."

Burn it in with a cable cooker. It'll STILL take awhile, but not that long.

 

[Salectric]

I agree it takes CuTF caps a long time to reach their full potential. But to call the break in process "vile" is ridiculous. That person must have never tried V-Cap TFTF caps because they went through a much more torturous break in process, actually sounding bad for much of the time. The CuTF caps, in my experience, sound good from the start and mostly just get better and better.

I have CuTF caps throughout my system and they have been in place for a number of years. A few months ago I tried replacing some of them with a highly recommended vintage paper cap. The vintage caps (which I had already broken in elsewhere) sounded pretty good but the CuTF caps were back in rather quickly.

 

[Atmasphere]

I agree it takes CuTF caps a long time to reach their full potential. But to call the break in process "vile" is ridiculous. That person must have never tried V-Cap TFTF caps because they went through a much more torturous break in process, actually sounding bad for much of the time. The CuTF caps, in my experience, sound good from the start and mostly just get better and better.

That's been our experience too. I've never heard one sound bad and really don't know what people are talking about when they talk about Teflon caps breaking in, but we only use the copper foil V-Caps so may not be experiencing something that happens with other parts.

 

[Argonaut]

The CuTF are quite exceptional and I was pleased to realise that I could pretty much enjoy them on day one as opposed to the ,back then somewhat revolutionary Teflon’s , that they replaced .
That said for folks who cannot stretch to the copper V-Caps the Audyn True Copper Max are also very good caps at less than half the price .

 

[cal3713]

I agree it takes CuTF caps a long time to reach their full potential. But to call the break in process "vile" is ridiculous. That person must have never tried V-Cap TFTF caps because they went through a much more torturous break in process, actually sounding bad for much of the time. The CuTF caps, in my experience, sound good from the start and mostly just get better and better.

I have CuTF caps throughout my system and they have been in place for a number of years. A few months ago I tried replacing some of them with a highly recommended vintage paper cap. The vintage caps (which I had already broken in elsewhere) sounded pretty good but the CuTF caps were back in rather quickly.

Interesting, I have a pair of the V-Cap TFTFs that I never got very far in with for exactly that reason... they completely shifted the tonal color of my pre and I just popped them out after a few days because I couldn't imagine the break-in sea shift that would make them acceptable. Maybe I'll give them another shot one day.

 

[Atmasphere]

Interesting, I have a pair of the V-Cap TFTFs that I never got very far in with for exactly that reason... they completely shifted the tonal color of my pre and I just popped them out after a few days because I couldn't imagine the break-in sea shift that would make them acceptable. Maybe I'll give them another shot one day.

The TFTFs are a very good part but the copper foil is a bit better. I'd give them a shot because there's very little out there that competes.

 

[Salectric]

Interesting, I have a pair of the V-Cap TFTFs that I never got very far in with for exactly that reason... they completely shifted the tonal color of my pre and I just popped them out after a few days because I couldn't imagine the break-in sea shift that would make them acceptable. Maybe I'll give them another shot one day.

Honestly I wouldn’t bother assuming your preamp is something you intend to keep. The CuTF caps are significantly better than even a fully broken in TFTF cap. I have replaced a TFTF with a Copper V-Cap a number of times, and it’s always a rewarding change.

CuTF has a more natural weight in the mid bass as well as a more natural HF balance, plus significantly better resolution in the midrange and treble. I don’t say that lightly because years ago I liked the TFTF and used them as couplers throughout my system. I tried many caps going back to the 1970s (literally) and TFTF were the best albeit with some easy to hear colorations. When the CuTF caps came out, I wasn’t anxious to make any changes given the expense, but one by one they were all replaced. As a general rule, I don’t like modern boutique parts; Copper V-Caps are an exception.

 

[Don Reid]

It is interesting we are all getting excited about amplifier design that harks back to the 30's. Makes me wonder if there was something lost in the SS designs that more or less killed off tubes in the mass market, form before function, 'practicality' before sound?

I used Cary Audio 2a3 monoblocks for the mids and highs of my DIY horn speakers for about ten years then replaced them with a pair of First Watt F3 single ended single gain stage SS stereo amps with JFET output transistors. I like the SQ of the F3s better.

 

[Argonaut]

Are there any Audio Vids available of the Yamamura Horn Array ?

Jean Hiraga meets ALE and Be Yamamura: one of the VERY best systems in the world?

Italian design meets Japan at its VERY best: ALE 6-ways ALL The VERY top Beryllium diaphragms, weighting between 100 and 160 kilos ea...

twogoodears.blogspot.com

 

[Argonaut]

*The POWER Of Horns*

These literally *Blew Poor Kedar Over * Either that or he had been at Yanislav ’s sherry !

 

[bonzo75]

*The POWER Of Horns*

These literally *Blew Poor Kedar Over * Either that or he had been at Yanislav ’s sherry !

Post in thread 'Zero Distortion: Altec Assault Redux: orchestra and rock'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...lt-redux-orchestra-and-rock.35975/post-841116

 

[acousticsguru]

I agree it takes CuTF caps a long time to reach their full potential. But to call the break in process "vile" is ridiculous. That person must have never tried V-Cap TFTF caps because they went through a much more torturous break in process, actually sounding bad for much of the time. The CuTF caps, in my experience, sound good from the start and mostly just get better and better.

That's a misunderstanding: of course he knows them, and offers them as an option, he merely cautions prospective customers that an amp will take longer to fully burn in using V-Cap CuTF as coupling caps (possibly thinking of people who don't use their systems on a regular basis, I really don't know?!). I agree that "vile" is an exaggeration, again, I find them slightly flat and dry sounding new, nothing out of the ordinary. Seems a general phenomenon to me, the higher-grade dielectric a cap uses, the longer the burn-in, that's all. Well worth a little time and patience.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[morricab]

A good summary of the sound quality imparted from distortion harmonics:

"
The primary color characteristic of an instrument is determined by the strength of the first few harmonics. Each of the lower harmonics produces its own characteristic effect when it is dominant or it can modify the effect of another dominant harmonic if it is prominent. In the simplest classification, the lower harmonics are divided into two tonal groups. The odd harmonics (third and fifth) produce a "stopped" or "covered" sound. The even harmonics (second, fourth, and sixth) produce "choral" or "singing" sounds.

The second and third harmonics are the most important from the viewpoint of the electronic distortion graphs in the previous section. Musically the second is an octave above the fundamental and is almost inaudible; yet it adds body to the sound, making it fuller. The third is termed quint or musical twelfth. It produces a sound many musicians refer to as "blanketed." Instead of making the tone fuller, a strong third actually gives the sound a metallic quality that gets annoying in character as its amplitude increases. A strong second with a strong third tends to open the "covered" effect. Adding the fourth and fifth to this changes the sound to an "open horn" like character.

The higher harmonics, above the seventh, give the tone "edge" or "bite." Provided the edge is balanced to the basic musical tone, it tends to reinforce the fundamental, giving the sound a sharp attack quality. Many of the edge harmonics are musically unrelated pitches such as the seventh, ninth, and eleventh. Therefore, too much edge can produce a raspy dissonant quality. Since the ear seems very sensitive to the edge harmonics, controlling their amplitude is of paramount importance. The previously mentioned study of the trumpet tone [6] shows that the edge effect is directly related to the loudness of the tone. Playing the same trumpet note loud or soft makes little difference in the amplitude of the fundamental and the lower harmonics. However, harmonics above the sixth increase and decrease in amplitude in almost direct proportion to the loudness. This edge balance is a critically important loudness signal for the human ear.

"

This ia a big reason that SETs sound natural to many of us is their dominant 2nd followed by 3rd with subsequent reduction with increasing harmonic order.

It is not correct to say that a dominant 3rd harmonic will sound similar...based on the above description it clearly won't.

 

[bonzo75]

I visited an audiophile to listen to the Feastrex single driver field coils permandur with a Kondo collector. Over a couple of days compared different Kondo amps. Baransu silver 300b, Kageki 2a3 (Neiro is copper 2a3), and Ongaku and Gakuon mk1, all from Kondo San era. With M1000.

He also had some AN U.K. stuff but prefers Kondo.

He had the metronome Kalista playing through the Lampi Pacific. He used to own the AN 5.1 signature but preferred the golden gate and then moved to Pacific.

TT was AN TT2 with AN IO, he mostly listens digital.

Also heard some Marconi PX4 sound great on Lampi.

It was all played through the M1000 preamp