SET amp owners thread

Yes, Amplifon runs the tube at it's max continuous power rating. Most other GM70 amps are run more conservatively at around 20-30 watts...some even less than that (I think the OMA amp is only 14 watts with this tube). What is clear though is that this tube is a beast compared to 211 and 845 tubes, which realistically don't get more than about 20-25 watts. The 813 in triode mode can get 25 watts and the KR Audio T100 can get around 30 watts. Ayon claims 35 watts for the 82B (a 300b variant on steroids) but I think they never test that high in real life.
I like pushing tubes to the limit, but you can do it at 1200V too. I think the cost factor played a role, it's cheaper to run at high voltage and lower current than the other way around. But when 5% voltage fluctuations from the mains potentially destroy the amp, the fun is over in my opinion.
 
Do you really think that Ralph, who has been building and selling tube devices for over 40 years, needs to badmouth everything except his devices? I have never read from him "sell your device, my device is much better" that would be aggressive advertising and that could be condemned.

Except that this particular manufacturers , less than subtle , subliminal ‘message’ Is invariably embedded in there somewhere , as for competing products … well lets just say that the most they can hope for is a Whiff Of ‘Damned By Faint Praise’ .

Stephan , I would much rather read and discuss your past SET builds on this thread titled “Set amp owners thread”
 
Yes, Amplifon runs the tube at it's max continuous power rating.

Phewww … I trust that Amplifon have some rapid bias circuit protection to ground designed into their GM70 amps then Brad ?
 
Phewww … I trust that Amplifon have some rapid bias circuit protection to ground designed into their GM70 amps then Brad ?
It did have a bias protection circuit when the tubes were getting old and going out of an acceptable range. Beyond that I don't have any insight into the actual circuit.
 
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I like pushing tubes to the limit, but you can do it at 1200V too. I think the cost factor played a role, it's cheaper to run at high voltage and lower current than the other way around. But when 5% voltage fluctuations from the mains potentially destroy the amp, the fun is over in my opinion.
I know of three in circulation with my friends and they all seem to work perfectly.
 
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I truly couldn't care less what you own - your comments are as I described.

Just for fun here is a couple of photos of my former bespoke Pre Amp using genuine Tango transformers (I still own a few) - NOS WE 205D tubes (now all sold) & genuine NOS GEC &/Mullard U52 tubes (I still own 4) - the wooden frame is timber from my old silky oak desk...
Ok, so your purpose here then is to police others comments...or?
 
Ok, so your purpose here then is to police others comments...or?

I am here to learn - most members are genuine & share knowledge both in threads or by PM.

Occasionally in life & for the first time on this site - I come across a narcissistic control freak & that is just a PITA.
 
I like pushing tubes to the limit, but you can do it at 1200V too. I think the cost factor played a role, it's cheaper to run at high voltage and lower current than the other way around. But when 5% voltage fluctuations from the mains potentially destroy the amp, the fun is over in my opinion.
I think then you exceed the max current for the tube and won't get to 40 watts.
 
I am here to learn - most members are genuine & share knowledge both in threads or by PM.

Occasionally in life & for the first time on this site - I come across a narcissistic control freak & that is just a PITA.
I am not the one who is policing what people post...you are.

Now you are casting aspersions... :rolleyes: on my character because you don't like the way I respond/challenge you? Sorry but that's nasty. I haven't personally insulted you nor tried to psychoanalyze you both of which you just did because you didn't like my challenges to you. I asked you why you are here if you don't own a SET... After my response to Ralph, you proceeded to make two fallacious challenges to my rebuttal to Ralph: 1) by asking how many amps I have designed...as if that is relevant to the analysis and 2) by appealing to Ralph's authority as a long time amp designer, rather than by addressing the actual points I made.

Number 1) Is a fallacy that ignores my argument but attacks my relative lack of amp designing experience rather than the merits of the argument. Number 2) is the fallacy of appeal to authority, again sidestepping the merits of the argument.
 
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Atmasphere,
This is a SET appreciation thread, if you don’t appreciate SET amps how can you ‘educate’ us??
I do admit some are more resistant to learning than others. At what point did I say I don't appreciate SETs?? Please don't try to put words in my mouth.
Taking the roll as teacher in a subject that you clearly don’t believe in is wrong.
Yes, I 'rolled' right over that one... Sorry- but I do believe what I'm saying here. Is it OK to walk the talk??
Beyond this you have a very significant commercial interest and potential for financial gain from disparaging SET amplifiers that compete directly with your products in the marketplace.
Not really. If you think I'm in audio for the money, I've news for you: I do it for fun. People that know me know I'm not motivated by money so much as enjoyment of music. We have a saying in this industry; 'if you want to make a pile of cash in high end audio, start out with a lot larger pile of cash.'
To teach in a subject that you have a clear conflict of interest in is fundamentally unethical.

I have taught full time for the last 20 years and as a qualified educator can only suggest you are completely off course in taking over a lead educator role in this particular thread.
Wait- what?? This is rubbish... I've offered information in an area in which I have a degree, expertise and experience of decades. There's a lead educator?? Is that an appointment? ;)

All I've done here is to correct common misinformation. Here's an example: "Electronics can favor a certain kind of music, and there are certain speakers or the like that are better for rock or classical." Its pure myth. There's no way a designer can make a speaker or amp or the like for a certain genre. If they could figure out a way to do it they'd be rich overnight. But in the last 100 years no-one has.

I'll bet someone just read what I wrote here and has issues with it. But the simple fact is that if a speaker is good for classical, it should be good for rock, folk, ethnic, jazz, electronia and so on. Same goes for amps and preamps. Can you imagine a turntable that's only good for classical??
The issue would be Ralph doesn’t think SET is fundamentally a good thing at all… but yes I’d much rather he spent his time trying to benefit SET technology instead of constantly ‘educating’ us against it.
As I mentioned prior, I've owned and built a number of SETs the early 1990s when Sound Practices (Joe Roberts) first mentioned them in his magazine. Honestly I thought he was joking at the time. There are a number of ways common SET performance can be improved; using Jack Elliano's Ultrapath circuit, direct-coupling to drive the power tube and even (horrors!) negative feedback (like you see in some Japanese designs) to improve usable power. I think its fun and I have the parts laying around so why not do it? That's the hobby of it.

The prototype I've been working on in the last year uses an OPT with the excellent waveform response (MUG for those curious). Very nice looking parts too. But like any cut-core OPT (the cut in the core to reduce saturation distortion on account of the DC current flowing through it to the output tube) the inductance at low frequencies is insufficient because of that cut core, so bass response is limited. This prototype is built for a 300b or UX-250.

I fully agree Graham. Ralph also took over my system thread for a while, infecting it by marketing his products. He claimed to be educating the readers. He finally agreed with me that my SET amps were well matched to my speakers and he thankfully moved along.
I agreed they are well matched. You're doing everything right to get the most out of an SET IMO. I did make some suggestions about possible upgrades that included SETs but you weren't interested.
I feel your pain Peter. Going into a thread dedicated to celebrating a specific type of gear (or especially into a personal system thread) and relentlessly banging away at the preferences expressed by the thread and turning what could be valuable and potentially constructive opportunities filled with helpful commentary and useful insights into constipated, entrenched battle zones is usually ultimately not a healthy thing, especially when the full subjective perspective is lost.
Or you could try listening.

Once you understand what it is that keeps tubes going for audiophiles, that opens access to how to design and build electronics to satisfy that; In effect, learning which measurements are important and which ones are not (but often have importance assigned to them).

...or maybe "Come here for education that you are STUPID for using SET!!!" :D
No-one has said that so far...
 
I know of three in circulation with my friends and they all seem to work perfectly.
I'm glad, I just wanted to point out that this can get terrible very quickly
 
I think then you exceed the max current for the tube and won't get to 40 watts.
For the GM70, one operating point appropriate for A2 operation looks like it could be 1250 volts and 100mA, loaded into 12.5k load. This would require about -128 volts on the grid and about 300 volt peak to peak signal (Limits of -278 volts and +22 volts). -~40 watt.
then you often need new tubes but possible;)
26 watt class A 1 6em7 driver gm 70 gz 34 tube rectifer is enough for me0158 Front.jpg
 
For the GM70, one operating point appropriate for A2 operation looks like it could be 1250 volts and 100mA, loaded into 12.5k load. This would require about -128 volts on the grid and about 300 volt peak to peak signal (Limits of -278 volts and +22 volts). -~40 watt.
then you often need new tubes but possible;)
26 watt class A 1 6em7 driver gm 70 gz 34 tube rectifer is enough for me
For A2 operation tube life is the same as A1. Its very important that the drive be able to remain linear while the power tube is in the grid current region. FWIW there is a class A3 operation also, where the power is even higher and the distortion lower. It was patented by Jack Elliano, the same guy who developed the Ultrapath output.
 
For A2 operation tube life is the same as A1. Its very important that the drive be able to remain linear while the power tube is in the grid current region. FWIW there is a class A3 operation also, where the power is even higher and the distortion lower. It was patented by Jack Elliano, the same guy who developed the Ultrapath output.
Yes. Operating point reach the max load (plate) reaches 125 watts. I would never do this but it is possible. Thanks, what the hell is class A 3 never heard before?
 
Yes. Operating point reach the max load (plate) reaches 125 watts. I would never do this but it is possible. Thanks, what the hell is class A 3 never heard before?
Higher Voltage, lower current, increased plate primary impedance. The output transformer is wound a bit differently and allows for a more constant impedance at all frequencies. Its inherently lower distortion as some of the quadratic properties of traditional SE operation are side-stepped; in particular IMD (which is highly audible) is reduced.

Jack Elliano marketed this concept with his Electra Fidelity amps. We had one here for audition and it was quite good- one of the better SETs I've heard. It used a single 6A3 (an indirectly heated version of the 2A3) and put out 10 Watts (zero feedback) instead of the usual 4.
 
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Poor Old Jack … Damed By Ralphy
Spheres Faint Praise…if only he could have been educated in time !
 
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Poor Old Jack … Damed By Ralphy M’pheres Faint Praise…
:rolleyes: Your comment is mis-informed and uncalled for.
I have a lot of respect for Jack- he's done more to advance SE operation in the last 20-30 years than anyone else I know. In addition to his class A3 patent his Ultrapath circuit is brilliant. I had him build a few output transformers which we used in mic preamps and they were excellent. You really need to dial it back.
 
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:rolleyes: Your comment is mis-informed and uncalled for.
I have a lot of respect for Jack- he's done more to advance SE operation in the last 20-30 years than anyone else I know. In addition to his class A3 patent his Ultrapath circuit is brilliant. I had him build a few output transformers which we used in mic preamps and they were excellent. You really need to dial it back.
:rolleyes: … Yawn
 
For the GM70, one operating point appropriate for A2 operation looks like it could be 1250 volts and 100mA, loaded into 12.5k load. This would require about -128 volts on the grid and about 300 volt peak to peak signal (Limits of -278 volts and +22 volts). -~40 watt.
then you often need new tubes but possible;)
26 watt class A 1 6em7 driver gm 70 gz 34 tube rectifer is enough for meView attachment 138716
The Amplifon gets 42 watts in Class A1. There are measurements in a German magazine that shows 35 watts at 1% THD…42 is at 3%.
 
So its high distortion @35 watt , would like to see numbers at 1watt and 10watt which is approx the 33% threshold of peak.

The Amplifon gets 42 watts in Class A1. There are measurements in a German magazine that shows 35 watts at 1% THD…42 is at 3%.
 

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