SET amp owners thread

[Blue58]

Thanks Tao,
If anyone has specific questions, I'll try to reply.
Don

View attachment 51236

Hi Don,
Great to see another AG user using low watt amps to drive the horns, 8w I believe from the EML20B, maybe less in the Wavelength.

How are you finding the double bass units and have you ever been tempted to try the new short basshorn with dsp?

I wish I had the space for Trios, sigh

Blue58

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

hi
nice setup
always been curious about the Wavelength stuff
as a previous Trio owner for 12 years, I really recommend you to explore the path of horn subs
I left the original CTRL225 subs rather early, first for some custom Bert Doppenberg matrix dual 15s in br matrix cabs and then later in my post Trio setup I went all out and got a custom basshorn solution.
If interested I think you can buy the cad drawings and the rights to produce them locally
I can supply more info if you wish
You should have plenty of space for them despite their 1 fold 4m length
they´re WxDxH=60x70x200cm....devide by 2,542 to inch
21inch ventilated pressure-regulated rearchamber
you just send me a PM
best
Leif

 

[redcars]

Hi Blue58 and Leif,
Thanks for your replies.

The Wavelength Mercury was rated at 4W @ using AVVT20SL tubes. Since these are NLA, I switched to the Emission Labs 20B. This turned out to be a big improvement as the AVVT was more tubey sounding and the 20B is very realistic in my system. The horns play plenty loud; very realistic, but I’m sure not as dynamic as a larger amp would. I’ve stuck with the Wavelengths because (1) money, (2) I have NO hum or tube noise except at the very loudest levels, and (3) they sound great.
With 6 + 5 + 1 = 12 tubes per channel in my signal path and 109 (+?) dBA speakers, I’m not sure that any other amps would sound as good and be as quiet.
The subs have certainly been a concern, and I’ve had to recone most of them. In this room I’ve gotten them to blend very well, but certainly not as good as horn subs would likely be. I keep thinking about what I might do if the subs crap out. Suggestions are welcome, but I’m on a fixed budget now and I’m spending most of it on vinyl and trying to save to update my Aesthetix Io to Eclipse level.
My subs are set so that only the outer of the two pairs blends with the horns but is rolled off at low frequencies. The inner pair plays only the lowest frequencies. They are all connected directly to the horns with speaker jumpers. It could be very expensive to connect a sub differently (?)

With the addition of Synergistic cables and fuses, and Herbies tube dampers, my system is flying. On good records it is the most three-dimensionally realistic sound I’ve heard.
Looking forward to your feedback,
Don

 

[the sound of Tao]

Hi Don,
I’ve always admired the Trios, they have a sense of wholeness and purity in approach with the same horn type throughout. I do feel that is helpful in terms of aiming for coherence.

Wondering what led you to them... and after living with the trios do you feel that they are your final destination speaker... what has been your speaker journey, had you had horns previously and which horns.

TIA Cheers
Tao

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thanks Tao,
If anyone has specific questions, I'll try to reply.
Don

View attachment 51236

That is a wonderful set up!

How far into the room (how far away from the front wall) are the Trios?

The front wall acoustic piece looks like it is gently rounded. What were the reasons you made it rounded rather than flat? What is the internal structure of this piece?

Do you have acoustic devices in the ceiling? Are those bass traps in the ceiling?

 

[redcars]

Hi Don,
I’ve always admired the Trios, they have a sense of wholeness and purity in approach with the same horn type throughout. I do feel that is helpful in terms of aiming for coherence.

Wondering what led you to them... and after living with the trios do you feel that they are your final destination speaker... what has been your speaker journey, had you had horns previously and which horns.

TIA Cheers
Tao

Hi Tao,
My speaker journey. Thanks for asking. I think it started with a crystal radio in about 1950. Don’t think it had a “speaker.” I’ll skip a few of the next steps. I remember my first record was “The Purple People Eater.” I remember dual Advents, stacked one on top of the other. Then there were Magneplanars, I think Tympani 3 A’s.
I had Dayton Wright electrostatics with all of the latest Audio Research gear. And then I met Bob Fulton and had Fulton Premiers that went through innumerable updates. Bob passed away and the Premiers followed a bit later. I started looking for a big improvement.
In 2000 I flew out to San Francisco and visited several Avantgarde owners including Larry Allen Kay. Larry’s power went out in a lightning storm 15 minutes after we started listening, but 15 minutes was enough. Larry had the Trio Classicos and he had a customized Wavelength amps. I ordered mine from Jim Smith and Gordon Rankin a few days later.
Are they my “destination speaker?” I hope so. I getting too old and too broke to ever change. And besides, I love the sound I’m getting.
Best,
Don

 

[redcars]

That is a wonderful set up!

How far into the room (how far away from the front wall) are the Trios?

The front wall acoustic piece looks like it is gently rounded. What were the reasons you made it rounded rather than flat? What is the internal structure of this piece?

Do you have acoustic devices in the ceiling? Are those bass traps in the ceiling?

Hi Ron,
Thanks for the nice words.
The room was built as a house addition over my garage. It is patterned after Mike Lavigne’s room, but a little shorter. Same designer as Mike: Chris Huston of Rives Audio. Mike is active at WBF.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/lavigneroom.htm










The room is approximately 28 x 21 x 11 feet. It is a room within a room. Two layers of sheet rock on the walls and ceiling are mounted on rubber to the house. The walls and most of the ceiling are covered with 1” fiberglass and then fabric. The door is solid with a seal all around including a seal that moves to close the bottom gap when the door closes.
You cannot hear the music from outside the room with the door closed. (A must for marital bliss)
The two triangular front corners are bass traps. Same for the back wall and the ceiling.
The curved deflector on the front wall is sitting on the floor (too heavy for the walls). It’s 2x6 lumber & plywood enclosed all around and with boards that match the floor on the front. It’s also filled with insulation.
The ceiling deflectors are filled with insulation and are adjustable
The room has it’s own heating and air conditioning, both of which are totally silent.
The Trios are approximately as shown in the picture, but the subs are back close to the front wall.

Oh, and the little green ball hanging over the chair is the sweet spot for precise alignments.
It was a big project!
Best,
Don

 

[Ron Resnick]

I knew the front piece reminded me of Mike’s room!

Of course the general room dimensions are perfect! I am envious!

I see that you do not have the convex side walls that Mike built. Also, your sidewalls must be significantly more acousticall absorptive (fabric over 1” insulation) than Mike’s birch plywood (over QuietRock) walls. On the other hand less of your floor area is covered with carpet than is Mike’s floor area (which is about 2/3 covered with carpet).

Still it is very interesting that you have a completely different speaker system in a room similar to Mike’s room!

What subwoofers are you using?

Purely out of curiosity did you consider any other horn speakers before getting the trios?

What are your primary musical genre preferences? What types of music do you listen to predominately?

PS: My first speakers were Magnepan MG-IIIAs and then I had Martin-Logan Monolihs and then Prodigy’s. It is interesting to me that you, also, started with planars but then moved to horns.

 

[redcars]

I knew the front piece reminded me of Mike’s room!

Of course the general room dimensions are perfect! I am envious!

I see that you do not have the convex side walls that Mike built. Also, your sidewalls must be significantly more acousticall absorptive (fabric over 1” insulation) than Mike’s birch plywood (over QuietRock) walls. On the other hand less of your floor area is covered with carpet than is Mike’s floor area (which is about 2/3 covered with carpet).

Still it is very interesting that you have a completely different speaker system in a room similar to Mike’s room!

The two side walls and the rear wall are mostly covered with vinyl records.
Don

 

[Ron Resnick]

And I just saw in your system description that you use the Io, as do I!

 

[audioquattr]

Hi Ron,
Thanks for the nice words.
The room was built as a house addition over my garage. It is patterned after Mike Lavigne’s room, but a little shorter. Same designer as Mike: Chris Huston of Rives Audio. Mike is active at WBF.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/lavigneroom.htm

View attachment 51296
View attachment 51293


View attachment 51294


View attachment 51295

The room is approximately 28 x 21 x 11 feet. It is a room within a room. Two layers of sheet rock on the walls and ceiling are mounted on rubber to the house. The walls and most of the ceiling are covered with 1” fiberglass and then fabric. The door is solid with a seal all around including a seal that moves to close the bottom gap when the door closes.
You cannot hear the music from outside the room with the door closed. (A must for marital bliss)
The two triangular front corners are bass traps. Same for the back wall and the ceiling.
The curved deflector on the front wall is sitting on the floor (too heavy for the walls). It’s 2x6 lumber & plywood enclosed all around and with boards that match the floor on the front. It’s also filled with insulation.
The ceiling deflectors are filled with insulation and are adjustable
The room has it’s own heating and air conditioning, both of which are totally silent.
The Trios are approximately as shown in the picture, but the subs are back close to the front wall.

Oh, and the little green ball hanging over the chair is the sweet spot for precise alignments.
It was a big project!
Best,
Don

What a beautiful room!
Awesome set up. Nothing needs to be changed.

Enjoy it in good health!

 

[Exlibris]

Exkibris, to go OT one moment. Are you aware of any issues running yr tt on a floor mounted plinth adjacent to yr spkr?

I ask because I do the same (on a Stacore), and I'm aware this may be the worst place to site a tt.

I've moved my system onto a larger equipment rack in order to accommodate the 4-box Thomas Mayer preamp that will be arriving soon. This allowed me to move the TT away from the right speaker and away from the floor. It does in fact make a big difference in the sound. The sound is now cleaner, clearer, more punctuated, more airy, and more spacious.

 

[jeff1225]

I've moved my system onto a larger equipment rack in order to accommodate the 4-box Thomas Mayer preamp that will be arriving soon. This allowed me to move the TT away from the right speaker and away from the floor. It does in fact make a big difference in the sound. The sound is now cleaner, clearer, more punctuated, more airy, and more spacious.

The system is looking great. Will you have a Mayer Phono?

Adding additional vibration control under that table will bring the system to the next level.

 

[Exlibris]

The system is looking great. Will you have a Mayer Phono?

Adding additional vibration control under that table will bring the system to the next level.

Thank you for the compliment.
Yes, I ordered the Mayer D3A phono and 10Y linestage.
What would you suggest for additional vibration control under the table? I imagine there are excellent active vibration control devices made for industry and labs that would work well for TTs. I would need something with a low profile or else the TT would block the bottom of the TV (behind that red panel).

 

[morricab]

Thank you for the compliment.
Yes, I ordered the Mayer D3A phono and 10Y linestage.
What would you suggest for additional vibration control under the table? I imagine there are excellent active vibration control devices made for industry and labs that would work well for TTs. I would need something with a low profile or else the TT would block the bottom of the TV (behind that red panel).

And speakers?

 

[jeff1225]

Thank you for the compliment.
Yes, I ordered the Mayer D3A phono and 10Y linestage.
What would you suggest for additional vibration control under the table? I imagine there are excellent active vibration control devices made for industry and labs that would work well for TTs. I would need something with a low profile or else the TT would block the bottom of the TV (behind that red panel).

I've been following your system on Audiogon for many years, fist with the MBL's and then on to the Audio Notes. And of course the Red Wall is the best solution I've seen for behind the system. I've made a similar journey from low efficiency and ultra detail to higher efficiency horn speakers. I really believe that Lamm and Mayer are of a same mind set.

Getting the table away from the speakers is important for resolution and sound stage. I have a friend that added a vibraplane to his system under the table and it was the single biggest upgrade he ever did. I've come to think Minus K is the best value in vibration control. There's one on Audiogon right now:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9ea21-minus-k-isolation-base-for-turntables-turntables

 

[Exlibris]

And speakers?

I haven't decided on speakers yet. I still haven't heard the Tune Audio Anima.

 

[morricab]

I haven't decided on speakers yet. I still haven't heard the Tune Audio Anima.

You have some space then. Much bigger than the Odeon 28s or 33s.

 

[Exlibris]

You have some space then. Much bigger than the Odeon 28s or 33s.

Yes, I asked Tune Audio for detailed measurements and the speakers will fit in those spaces between the ends of the rack and the side walls. The horns will overhang the equipment rack but they will not block the TV.

 

[Exlibris]

I've been following your system on Audiogon for many years, fist with the MBL's and then on to the Audio Notes. And of course the Red Wall is the best solution I've seen for behind the system. I've made a similar journey from low efficiency and ultra detail to higher efficiency horn speakers. I really believe that Lamm and Mayer are of a same mind set.

Getting the table away from the speakers is important for resolution and sound stage. I have a friend that added a vibraplane to his system under the table and it was the single biggest upgrade he ever did. I've come to think Minus K is the best value in vibration control. There's one on Audiogon right now:

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9ea21-minus-k-isolation-base-for-turntables-turntables

Oddly enough, I used to have a Minus K platform. When I moved to my current condo I tried the TT with and without it and found that there was no real difference. I chalked this up to the fact that my floor is 8" of poured concrete. I'm thinking that the vibration that is/was effecting the TT is mostly airborne. My old 'equipment rack' was a 4" thick block of maple that weighed 100 kilos. It was more vibration-resistant than this new one and yet the TT sounds better on the new one. I figure that's because it is now sitting in a spot where it is away from the speakers and floor (and the airborne impacts in those areas).