SET amp owners thread

[213Cobra]

What not everyone here knows is that I have tried to embrace and love the Class D amp...owned three different make/models and listened at length to at least a dozen other models. Lacking realism are the kindest words I can use...

Definitely true for most; not true for all. Needle/haystack problem. -Phil

 

[cjfrbw]

I can't believe people here are seriously making comparative evaluations of systems, amps, etc. based on smartphone recordings. No wonder audiophilia has crushed credibility in the larger world. -Phil

LOL! Who claims to be serious.

 

[213Cobra]

LOL! Who claims to be serious.

Nobody here, as far as I can tell! But why even use the bandwidth for such drivel as smartphone audio compares? -Phil

 

[morricab]

Phil, not everyone into these videos
There's at least one extremely high profile member here respected by all who hadn't got time for that malarkey
Many of the rest of us look at it, like you, w total incredulity.

Why incredulity? The truth of the matter is that you can hear a lot of RELATIVE differences between system settings...even with a smartphone (which have gotten quite good BTW.) and through Youtube. I agree you cannot tell the absolute sound quality all that well but you can hear a lot of this coming through as well...if a good recording is made to begin with...it seems to survive the compression remarkably intact.

 

[213Cobra]

Why incredulity? The truth of the matter is that you can hear a lot of RELATIVE differences between system settings...even with a smartphone (which have gotten quite good BTW.) and through Youtube. I agree you cannot tell the absolute sound quality all that well but you can hear a lot of this coming through as well...if a good recording is made to begin with...it seems to survive the compression remarkably intact.

Coming up on 3am here. So I suppose that's my cue to escape to sleep from the nonsense of the audiophile-smartphone-proof-point recording. ! Trade away, fellas! I'm finishing up some crossoverless symphonic magic here in Los Angeles. -Phil

 

[the sound of Tao]

I listen to tube amps 99% of the time. Right now, I'm listening to a custom EL156 single-ended pentode amp. It has just three tubes. A gz32 rectifier, an EF12 input-driver, and one EL156. 20w, which is plenty for my Zu Definitions. What's between your preamp and speaker? That said (and asked), when I lash up the Class Ds, it's a roaring good time!

Phil

Uhmmm, pre and amps in my system info below... I’ve heard plenty of Zu’s and with quite a few amps including the ones you have owned and hats off to Marc who I am sure has actually turned his setup into something really great by overcoming and being honest about the Zu inherent shortcomings and working with their strengths.

But off the rack these are clearly genre limited speakers that have very genre specific strengths and weaknesses, most notably a failure to portray large scale symphonic music. Thank heavens Marc has been at least 100% honest about that. So I havent heard them at their best (few have perhaps) but I have heard them at their most mundane quite a few times. Not even the failure of a catastrophic iPhone recording is likely to ever cover over that very real world issue. Symphonic magic away!

 

[213Cobra]

Uhmmm, pre and amps in my system info below... I’ve heard plenty of Zu’s and with quite a few amps including the ones you have owned and hats off to Marc who I am sure has actually turned his setup into something really great by overcoming and being honest about the Zu inherent shortcomings and working with their strengths.

But off the rack these are clearly genre limited speakers that have very genre specific strengths and weaknesses, most notably a failure to portray large scale symphonic music. Thank heavens Marc has been at least 100% honest about that. So I havent heard them at their best (few have perhaps) but I have heard them at their most mundane quite a few times. Not even the failure of a catastrophic iPhone recording is likely to ever cover over that very real world issue. Symphonic magic away!

Mostly balderdash. Marc has a challenging room, but all can be solved and he's worked at it. In over 50 years spending my own money on this interest, with lifelong live symphny listening, the very appeal of Zu (Definition specifically) has been its credibility in presenting highly scaled symphonic music convincingly. Almost everything else in normal environments sounds choked and curtailed by comparison. But amp matching is vital.

Genre-limited? Complete nonsense. When you're in Los Angeles, feel free to stop by.

Phil

 

[the sound of Tao]

Mostly balderdash. Marc has a challenging room, but all can be solved and he's worked at it. In over 50 years spending my own money on this interest, with lifelong live symphny listening, the very appeal of Zu (Definition specifically) has been its credibility in presenting highly scaled symphonic music convincingly. Almost everything else in normal environments sounds choked and curtailed by comparison. But amp matching is vital.

Genre-limited? Complete nonsense. When you're in Los Angeles, feel free to stop by.

Phil

As you say Phil... absolutely complete balderdash. They just aren’t good at big scale classical at all. What they do well is all good. But you are the only one out there touting large scale classical as a natural Zu strength. I trust in Marc’s sheer bloodyminded focus and perfectionism to overcome an inherent constraint and get something really good happening. But no amount of bluff or wishing is just going to make Zu a big scale classic music lovers speaker without some serious sonic shifting $$$ investment. Have heard them here plenty of times so hardly going to travel across the world to suffer another tragic symphonic overture... glad you find them good enough for you at it but classical magic

 

[Exlibris]

How do they sound??

I don't know, I'm hoping to borrow some speakers today. Hopefully one the three models in the Odeon lineup below the 33.

 

[Exlibris]

But you haven't received the Odeon yet, have you?

That's correct, I'm just placing the order today. I ran into some delays with my home renovation because of the virus. I'll be getting some speakers on loan today but I'm not sure what will be offered.

 

[bonzo75]

Guys this a SETs horns thread

 

[bonzo75]

I don't know, I'm hoping to borrow some speakers today. Hopefully one the three models in the Odeon lineup below the 33.

It might not tell you how good or not the Allnic are, but check if ur it's sounding too pretty. If it does and you don't like that you will have to KR to neuter

 

[spiritofmusic]

Guys this a SETs horns thread

I've read bigger car crash off-topic threads Lol.
But as you say, "back to our normal programme..."

 

[morricab]

Even though I'm the longest term booster for Zu on WBF, and probably in the whole history of social media LOL, I'm probably the one who's been least adept at getting them right.

KeithR claims he sorted his pair on the first day. Well, my first day was in August 2008...so what does that say about me?!

Phil here also is strongly of the opinion they're pretty good straight out of their shipping cartons, and reasonably system- and room-agnostic.

Both Keith and Phil don't quite get why it's taken me so long, w such attention to tweaks and ancilliaries.

All I can say is I latched on early to the Zu sucker one-two punch of tone density and dynamic shove, which is evident immediately on demo and in all rooms (and convinced me to scrap my way more neutral ProAcs for), that absolutely brought to life all my challenging prog and fusion, way more than other spkrs I heard at the time (and still to this day).

And certain shortcomings in absolute transparency, neutrality, air and microdynamics became apparent later (as a certain veiling and upper bass opaqueness), that precluded full engagement w vocals, jazz and esp classical.

Now this was only partially a Zu issue. At that point, I hadn't really dialled my analog in, so it was only firing at 60%, my cdp was a tad grey thru the mids...and critically, my room and power was a bitch, contributing to a hard, vague, grainy sound, that only my move here was able to be revealed as a comparison.

To Ked's credit, he picked up on this immediately, and so while I had "tunnel hearing" ie only latching onto Zu positives on playing Rush and Magma and Porcupine Tree, he was castigating how bad Mahler sounded there.

Consistent w criticisms from others, incl Blue58.

However, was the Zu DNA absolutely worth sticking with, or time to change on coming here?

I had a decision to make...put a £50k budget twds new spkrs and use a bog standard 18x12x8 room. Or put that budget into creating the 18x48x9 space in the loft, and wrangle a better sound w the Zus.

I missed a chance to hear User211's modded Apogee Duettas at the time. If I had done, having heard them subsequently, I'd have commisioned a pr, most suitable amps, and Zus would have been history. They I'm sure would have been great in that smaller room. I was borderline considering AG Duos XD and some quieter tubes as well.

For many reasons, those options didn't happen, 12 months of audio quarantine, fired up the Zus in the new space, random non optimised setup...expecting nothing good because of my growing fears the space was gonna be worse than my last one, and the stress of the move and having zero cash in the bank...and to find that just moments in, two firm conclusions could be drawn.

First, room acoustics are beyond critical. How the exact same system in a different room could be so radically different is almost impossible to convey. And cemented by the fact that the last thing I've done acoustically 3 wks ago, simply filling a 12 cub ft hatchway void, has liberated a whole new level of goodness. One pack of acoustic Rockwool, £50...miraculous.

Secondly, my Zus were hampered before. With no other system changes, they were revealed to be way more open, delicate and neutral than I'd ever suspected...way closer to Phil's take on them. And hugely responsive to attention to them, the other gear, and system-wide tweaks.

So, sorting their own Revopods footers isolation, Stacore tt isolation and bespoke Straingauge cart LPS, quieter tubes and impvd DB25 cbl in preamp, full Sablon loom, beefiest Westwick balanced pwr and Oyaides/Furutech dedicated lines/duplexes, SR fuses, full Symposium isolation to gear...and fetishistic attention to tt/arm mods and optimal analog setup, and Zus positioning/listening distance/optimal subs settings.

Throwing in these last changes since lockdown, ie filling the hatch and left field use of lp periphery ring, has got me to a point now that classical and jazz are the FIRST lps I reach for. Yes, Zus still don't nail that very last degree of uber lack of character and mega transparency/neutrality. But they come way closer than my first 8 years of ownership ever suggested. And I can truly call them genre agnostic, even handed, delicate...while maintaining 100% of that core Zu DNA that still makes then top 5 spkr on the mkt for Rush, Magma, Porcupine Tree.

Isn't there like a 1000 page thread on this subject??

 

[bonzo75]

Isn't there like a 1000 page thread on this subject??

Not this week, no

 

[morricab]

I've read bigger car crash off-topic threads Lol.
But as you say, "back to our normal programme..."

I actually own horns and SETs, so doesn't that give me the right to post about whatever the heck I want on this thread??

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, I've deleted my post.

 

[morricab]

Well, I've deleted my post.

At least you own SETs

 

[bonzo75]

Well, I've deleted my post.

You don't need to be as sensitive as your speaker. That's taking ownership a bit too far

 

[spiritofmusic]

Like my spkrs, I'm not "cross over less" from me.