SET amp owners thread

[bonzo75]

You are right. But i would go for set and not pp but that´s my taste

SETs vs push pulls at these higher powered levels is not that straight forward. SETs lose advantage the higher power you go, though some Eimac tubes can be an exception.

I have had Nat magma SE with NAT magnetostat SE for trial next to a jadis 100 watts with Verity and preferred the jadis on the whole.

We have compared the Allnic A6000 to the kronzilla on Avalon compass diamonds, and on drive it was equally. The KR VA 200 was a different story.

Both Allnic and kronzilla under powered the Avalon, and the kronzilla has quite some grunt for a 50 watt. The Allnic has some magic. We used KR 300b tubes as they reduce the color and improve the drive.

The Allnic preamp held it back and the drive improved much more after the Soulution preamp was inserted in between. It is still one of the better systems I have heard anywhere, and he can improve it for sure if he gets a more powerful amp that retains the magic in the highs of the Allnic, but that is going to require some spend and research, like CAT JL7 or such, which he is not willing to do at the moment.

 

[olivier]

Well at Munich the NAT played Odeons and that was a good match...
It is always a question of matching speaker and amp...I love my CAT with TAD CR1 but with Druids the NAF 845 is better (bigger, faster, more dynamics)

 

[morricab]

The Ocatve stuff is very stable if you want Tubes or CAT

I haven't liked any of the Octave gear I have heard. CAT is good but huge and expensive.

 

[morricab]

SETs vs push pulls at these higher powered levels is not that straight forward. SETs lose advantage the higher power you go, though some Eimac tubes can be an exception.

I have had Nat magma SE with NAT magnetostat SE for trial next to a jadis 100 watts with Verity and preferred the jadis on the whole.

We have compared the Allnic A6000 to the kronzilla on Avalon compass diamonds, and on drive it was equally. The KR VA 200 was a different story.

Both Allnic and kronzilla under powered the Avalon, and the kronzilla has quite some grunt for a 50 watt. The Allnic has some magic. We used KR 300b tubes as they reduce the color and improve the drive.

The Allnic preamp held it back and the drive improved much more after the Soulution preamp was inserted in between. It is still one of the better systems I have heard anywhere, and he can improve it for sure if he gets a more powerful amp that retains the magic in the highs of the Allnic, but that is going to require some spend and research, like CAT JL7 or such, which he is not willing to do at the moment.

Disagree that SET loses the advantage, although Jadis makes some very good PP tube amps. On reference 3A speakers a big SET was much better than a good PP triode amp (VAC). This was also true on Thiel CS3.7s, not the easiest speaker but 30 watt SET destroyed Octave monos and the same VAC, which is an otherwise nice sounding amp. My NAT SE(T) hybrid also sounded brilliant but only after running for 2+ hours...before that it was kind of dull sounding. AC Diana Forte + Impera on the same Thiels on another level altogether from the rest.

NAT SE2SE out performed CAT JL2 Signature on Apogee Grands driven with a Diva crossover (so panels only). KR VA350i (slightly) outperformed a Jadis Defy 7 MkIII (modded with Siltech silver wiring) on Focal Mezzo Utopia Be.

Will a small SET outperform a big SET on a high sensitivity speaker?? You claim it is always the case but I would say "It depends" and I think the very best big bottle or parallel SET can go toe-to-toe with the little 45s and 2A3s of the world.

 

[morricab]

Well at Munich the NAT played Odeons and that was a good match...
It is always a question of matching speaker and amp...I love my CAT with TAD CR1 but with Druids the NAF 845 is better (bigger, faster, more dynamics)

Agree with the NAT+Odeon combo...they also sound good with Aries Cerat, Ayon and New Audio Frontiers.

 

[morricab]

Agree with the NAT+Odeon combo...they also sound good with Aries Cerat, Ayon and New Audio Frontiers.

And KR Audio...

 

[bonzo75]

Disagree that SET loses the advantage, although Jadis makes some very good PP tube amps. On reference 3A speakers a big SET was much better than a good PP triode amp (VAC). This was also true on Thiel CS3.7s, not the easiest speaker but 30 watt SET destroyed Octave monos and the same VAC, which is an otherwise nice sounding amp. My NAT SE(T) hybrid also sounded brilliant but only after running for 2+ hours...before that it was kind of dull sounding. AC Diana Forte + Impera on the same Thiels on another level altogether from the rest.

NAT SE2SE out performed CAT JL2 Signature on Apogee Grands driven with a Diva crossover (so panels only). KR VA350i (slightly) outperformed a Jadis Defy 7 MkIII (modded with Siltech silver wiring) on Focal Mezzo Utopia Be.

Will a small SET outperform a big SET on a high sensitivity speaker?? You claim it is always the case but I would say "It depends" and I think the very best big bottle or parallel SET can go toe-to-toe with the little 45s and 2A3s of the world.

Neither Nats nor JL2 can sound right with apogee grands, and neither Defy Mark 7 nor that small KR integrated can work with focal

So, such speakers did you listen to 46, 45, 2a3 or 300b SETs or any other such valve on for compare with big bottle?

 

[morricab]

Neither Nats nor JL2 can sound right with apogee grands, and neither Defy Mark 7 nor that small KR integrated can work with focal

So, such speakers did you listen to 46, 45, 2a3 or 300b SETs or any other such valve on for compare with big bottle?

BS and more BS...

The Grand panels are an easy 6 ohm load and have a reasonable 87 or so db sensitivity. The Focals are at least 93-94dB and not a problem at all for 30-100 watts of power (the power of the two amps used).

I have 300B SETs at home in fact and have heard 45 based amp (Yamamoto) and 2a3 (Audio note) on speakers with 100db/watt sensitivity.

 

[morricab]

Edit: They were Scala Uptopias, not Mezzo Utopia...

 

[bonzo75]

No they don't work. If audio note 2a3 don't work on your speaker that's a speaker match issue. And I have heard yamamoto 45s often, they are a fun low cost amp not a great amp

 

[Kingrex]

Best 845 Tubes i do have are Psvane 845 ACME followed by Psvane 845-T-MII/2 and Shuguang 845B

Thanks. I'm going to try the ACME.

 

[DaveC]

BS and more BS...

The Grand panels are an easy 6 ohm load and have a reasonable 87 or so db sensitivity. The Focals are at least 93-94dB and not a problem at all for 30-100 watts of power (the power of the two amps used).

I have 300B SETs at home in fact and have heard 45 based amp (Yamamoto) and 2a3 (Audio note) on speakers with 100db/watt sensitivity.

30 Watts for Focal Grand Utopia? Really? I also like SET but man, that's a little out there. I think you also need to consider other aspects such as how much power the speaker can handle, clipping at high SPL peaks, clarity of more complex music, etc. I'm sure than 30W SET might sound ok with solo female vocals, but otherwise...

Last time I heard Focal Grands was with Boulder 3000 series amps at 1kW, this is a much more appropriate amp for those speakers and the results were more than just good. This was in Boulder's new listening room with all Boulder electronics of course...

 

[DaveC]

I got cold feet and cancelled the ordered.
I've also found that by toeing out the speakers I get more woofer contribution.

I think you'd be surprised how good modern class D is with woofers. They have a grip on the woofers that other amps just can't match. PP tubes are going to be sloppy in comparison.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I think you'd be surprised how good modern class D is with woofers. They have a grip on the woofers that other amps just can't match. PP tubes are going to be sloppy in comparison.

grip without tone is my experience...

 

[morricab]

30 Watts for Focal Grand Utopia? Really? I also like SET but man, that's a little out there. I think you also need to consider other aspects such as how much power the speaker can handle, clipping at high SPL peaks, clarity of more complex music, etc. I'm sure than 30W SET might sound ok with solo female vocals, but otherwise...

Last time I heard Focal Grands was with Boulder 3000 series amps at 1kW, this is a much more appropriate amp for those speakers and the results were more than just good. This was in Boulder's new listening room with all Boulder electronics of course...

First off it was Scalia Utopia and at 92db, you definitely don’t need a kilowatt...come on! Room size matters and listening distance and level (moderate to moderately high but not rock concert).

How much power the speaker can handle is completely irrelevant and we were below clipping for all music. Think about how much 30 watts will give you SPL wise with a 92db speaker (it is not a difficult load either). Over 100db without clipping. I don’t go that loud usually, do you?

I did a demo once with the Grande Utopia Be EM (94db speaker) where a 30 watt KR was way better sounding than 400 watt Electrocompaniet monos and had no issues driving them quite loud. The dealer was stunned that his monos were trounced.

Same amp drove the Wilson X1 (95db) exceptionally well...better than the owners Jeff Rowland monos.

No girl with guitar music (I hate that). Usually jazz, rock or smaller classical ensembles.

 

[morricab]

grip without tone is my experience...

Agree you throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[DaveC]

grip without tone is my experience...

I totally know what you mean... My NC500s can be so clean when driving my AE woofers that it can sound a little different. By clean I do mean measured harmonic distortion, there is so little distortion the overtones the ear/brain uses to recognize timbre and tone can seem to be missing, but once you get used to it hearing distortion and a warm bass tone can also seem sloppy. I think many expect bass to be warm and with significant harmonic distortion, and very clean and undistorted bass is not usual and we're simply not acclimated to hearing it.

IME the Crown drivecore hits a bit of a middle ground, I believe they are voiced to sound more tube-like vs NCore and other D-amps, but you still get that grip.

 

[morricab]

No they don't work. If audio note 2a3 don't work on your speaker that's a speaker match issue. And I have heard yamamoto 45s often, they are a fun low cost amp not a great amp

What are you even talking about? What won’t work? I never said Audio note 2a3 does or doesn’t work on my speakers (and which speakers??).
bunch of gibberish from you.

 

[DaveC]

First off it was Scalia Utopia and at 92db, you definitely don’t need a kilowatt...come on!

How much power the speaker can handle is completely irrelevant

Sure, I'm just saying the big Boulder 1kW amps sounded amazing with the speakers and can make them do things a 30W amp can't.

If you're going to spend the cash for speakers like that, imo you hobble them with such an amp. If you're buying speakers like that maybe you DO want to reproduce symphonic music at concert levels?

As for the 2nd statement, I believe it does make a big difference.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I had Apogee Diva with DAX active x/o and landed on 4 x JRDG Model-7 to drive them...no less