SET amp owners thread
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
Hi Joao, I do understand that I'll lose 50% or more of the power, however I have tried the speakers with a pair of 45 amps I have in store that deliver maybe 1.75w and they were fine except for an earth hum which stopped me doing a proper longer term test. I must dig them out again to try and sort them out as that would show me once and for all whether either a 50 or a single 2A3 will work for me. David
Is the 45 ac-filaments, and if yes can you adjust the hum with the pot? BTW, I prefer the 45 over a 2A3 & 50.
Hi David. My Tonians are set-up in a small room, my office. Right now it's part of my second system but eventually I'm going to combine my two systems together. This room is about 13x12 and they get very loud. I have heard of people driving these with 6W but I've only used them with these Wall amps and a LTA ZOTL amp that put out about 40W. The Wall seems much more powerful despite the fact it puts out less power than the ZOTL. I've heard other mid 90s db speakers with low per amps and IMHO I think less than 20W is too little power. Your Ocellias might be more efficient than my Tonians. If I had a 6W or so amp on hand I'd try it but I don't, so I can't say for sure.
Ian,
Yes just like the music festival. I have been with my family every year for the last 6 years, albeit that they all abandon me to be with their friends, yes even my wife (!), as soon as we get inside. I've really enjoyed it even though I mostly listen to jazz and classical at home. I suspect it's because many of the bands are ones I listened to at school or saw when I was at uni in the 70's/early 80's, there's nothing quite like nostalgia!
Many thanks for your thoughts on the amplifiers. I've never heard the Ocellia's with anything more powerful than a single 300b driving them and much preferred my PSE 2A3's to that though I think that was because of the way that particular amp was built. I suppose really ought to try something a bit beefier before going further down the low power route, maybe some 211's or 845's, I'll have to see what I can demo at home.
Joao,
Many thanks for the reminder. I hadn't seen the "hum pot" on the 45 amps as it is well hidden at the back and looks like a bolt to hold on the power transformer. Having now located it after your post I will reinstall them and have a listen. I have been plagued by other mains noise recently so had just put them back in the cupboard for another day. I'll try to get them set up next week.
David
Yes just like the music festival. I have been with my family every year for the last 6 years, albeit that they all abandon me to be with their friends, yes even my wife (!), as soon as we get inside. I've really enjoyed it even though I mostly listen to jazz and classical at home. I suspect it's because many of the bands are ones I listened to at school or saw when I was at uni in the 70's/early 80's, there's nothing quite like nostalgia!
Many thanks for your thoughts on the amplifiers. I've never heard the Ocellia's with anything more powerful than a single 300b driving them and much preferred my PSE 2A3's to that though I think that was because of the way that particular amp was built. I suppose really ought to try something a bit beefier before going further down the low power route, maybe some 211's or 845's, I'll have to see what I can demo at home.
Joao,
Many thanks for the reminder. I hadn't seen the "hum pot" on the 45 amps as it is well hidden at the back and looks like a bolt to hold on the power transformer. Having now located it after your post I will reinstall them and have a listen. I have been plagued by other mains noise recently so had just put them back in the cupboard for another day. I'll try to get them set up next week.
David
David, good luck... I'll cross my fingers, the 45, hard to beat, and owns a fresh sound and when it matches you will enjoy it
Hi guys,
Referring back to my posts #600 - #609
I have made some changes/IMPROVEMENTS.
Specifically, for discussion today, I have changed my (4) Avantgarde SUB 225 subwoofers. The change is truly phenomenal! Stick with me; this is coming back to my SET amps.
I have had many issues with the AG subs:
I had to recone most of the (8) drivers!
There was a huge thump when I turned them on or off (which, because of this, was seldom).
There was a background hum that additional grounding did not resolve.
They were SLOW relative to the horns.
Even when turned down so that they did not affect the midrange, they still muddied up the sound of the horns.
Despite all this, I lived with them for 20 years because I did not find anything to replace them that I thought would be better, or that I could afford, or that fit in my space, or that worked with my amps, etc.
I stumbled on a thread in a blog I seldom read: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/avantgarde-trio-set-up-revisited-question.729213/
I contacted the thread starter in England, and one thing led to another.
I ordered a pair of (the newest) REL 212SX, and a pair of SR subwoofer cables designed for the RELs.
https://rel.net/shop/powered-subwoofers/serie-s/212-sx/
https://www.synergisticresearch.com/cables/atmosphere/subwoofer/atmosphere-relspec-subwoofer/
The two RELs are each powered by 1000W amplifiers and connect to the amp speaker terminals just as the AV subs did. That makes a total of about 2008+ watts!! Obviously, most of it is unused.
All of this was mixed with high anticipation, new friendships, and frustration.
I bought my Wavelength Mercury Ag amps when I bought my Trios. I still love them 20 years later. The Wavelength Mercury was rated at 4W @ using AVVT20SL tubes. Since these tubes are NLA, I switched to the Emission Labs 20B. This turned out to be a big improvement as the AVVT was more tubey sounding and the 20B is very dynamic and realistic in my system. I suspect that they also boosted the 4W output a bit.
I wrote to REL:
If: The amps are 4W+ full power and 15-45KHz -3dB
And: The Trios are 109 Db+ efficient, and the amps are still VERY quiet.
And: The horns are rated for 3W-200W input.
And: The horns and the Avantgarde subs will play really loud now without noticeable distortion, and I avoid driving them any harder.
And: The amplifier designer/manufacturer says there should be no problem here.
And: My friend has a very similar system with the same speakers and two REL 212SE
Then: Is there any problem with driving two REL 212SX subs to the same volume levels that I currently have?
Every person I spoke with at REL thought this should be fine, except for one influential individual who stated they would not work with my amps but refused to talk with me.
I ordered the subs anyway!
After a couple of break-in stumbles, the RELs are FANTASTIC!
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with my Wavelength amps driving these!
Relative to the AG subs:
They are much easier place and tune.
They integrate with the horns seamlessly.
They are fast, dynamic, powerful and natural sounding.
There is a new quietness around the musical notes coming from the horns that has never been there before.
The soundstage is larger, but naturally recorded voices and instruments are not.
Likely much more that I have yet to discover!
I am a happy camper!
Best,
Don
Referring back to my posts #600 - #609
I have made some changes/IMPROVEMENTS.
Specifically, for discussion today, I have changed my (4) Avantgarde SUB 225 subwoofers. The change is truly phenomenal! Stick with me; this is coming back to my SET amps.
I have had many issues with the AG subs:
I had to recone most of the (8) drivers!
There was a huge thump when I turned them on or off (which, because of this, was seldom).
There was a background hum that additional grounding did not resolve.
They were SLOW relative to the horns.
Even when turned down so that they did not affect the midrange, they still muddied up the sound of the horns.
Despite all this, I lived with them for 20 years because I did not find anything to replace them that I thought would be better, or that I could afford, or that fit in my space, or that worked with my amps, etc.
I stumbled on a thread in a blog I seldom read: https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/avantgarde-trio-set-up-revisited-question.729213/
I contacted the thread starter in England, and one thing led to another.
I ordered a pair of (the newest) REL 212SX, and a pair of SR subwoofer cables designed for the RELs.
https://rel.net/shop/powered-subwoofers/serie-s/212-sx/
https://www.synergisticresearch.com/cables/atmosphere/subwoofer/atmosphere-relspec-subwoofer/
The two RELs are each powered by 1000W amplifiers and connect to the amp speaker terminals just as the AV subs did. That makes a total of about 2008+ watts!! Obviously, most of it is unused.
All of this was mixed with high anticipation, new friendships, and frustration.
I bought my Wavelength Mercury Ag amps when I bought my Trios. I still love them 20 years later. The Wavelength Mercury was rated at 4W @ using AVVT20SL tubes. Since these tubes are NLA, I switched to the Emission Labs 20B. This turned out to be a big improvement as the AVVT was more tubey sounding and the 20B is very dynamic and realistic in my system. I suspect that they also boosted the 4W output a bit.
I wrote to REL:
If: The amps are 4W+ full power and 15-45KHz -3dB
And: The Trios are 109 Db+ efficient, and the amps are still VERY quiet.
And: The horns are rated for 3W-200W input.
And: The horns and the Avantgarde subs will play really loud now without noticeable distortion, and I avoid driving them any harder.
And: The amplifier designer/manufacturer says there should be no problem here.
And: My friend has a very similar system with the same speakers and two REL 212SE
Then: Is there any problem with driving two REL 212SX subs to the same volume levels that I currently have?
Every person I spoke with at REL thought this should be fine, except for one influential individual who stated they would not work with my amps but refused to talk with me.
I ordered the subs anyway!
After a couple of break-in stumbles, the RELs are FANTASTIC!
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with my Wavelength amps driving these!
Relative to the AG subs:
They are much easier place and tune.
They integrate with the horns seamlessly.
They are fast, dynamic, powerful and natural sounding.
There is a new quietness around the musical notes coming from the horns that has never been there before.
The soundstage is larger, but naturally recorded voices and instruments are not.
Likely much more that I have yet to discover!
I am a happy camper!
Best,
Don
Sorry for the very late response
Speakers are Tune Audio Anima, Cube Audio Magus and Nenuphar, FinkTeam Borg and Boenicke W8 at the moment....
Preamp is now also Bespoke Silver version.
Hi everyone
Brand new member on this forum from England. Thought I'd introduce myself, committed SET user, Tron PX25 amp, Avantgarde Trio's, REL 212SE's. Im not sure how to add my equipment into the bottom of my profile yet but I'll get there. Anyway, looking to learn a lot from all the knowledgeable people here!
Happy to answer any questions.
Regards
Chop
Brand new member on this forum from England. Thought I'd introduce myself, committed SET user, Tron PX25 amp, Avantgarde Trio's, REL 212SE's. Im not sure how to add my equipment into the bottom of my profile yet but I'll get there. Anyway, looking to learn a lot from all the knowledgeable people here!
Happy to answer any questions.
Regards
Chop
So you still have the Allnic 7000 phono, and what amps are you using on the Anima?
Thanks for your note Bonzo75. I have a matched pair of original Marconi's and a pair of KRAudio PX25's. The original's are smoother and...quieter between notes, if that makes sense. Definitely better but IMO not night and day. I believe the KR Audios are electrically different but they work just fine.
Hi Bonzo
Yes I still play on the Allnic H-7000 together with Bespoke Silver version passive trafo pre-amp and Zikra 300B Stereo Power Amp
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Yeah with all this discussion of toe in and out, toes up would indeed have been a new thing
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